bmi strike?
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bmi forum
Keep it lit, fadec and keyboard flyer, the link to the bmi forum is http://www.pprune.org/forums/forumdi...?s=&forumid=29 You have to subscribe and be approved by the modorater/regulator Fadec Primary Chanel. He needs your name and staff no if I recall.
However why not just join bm_allpilots and get the daily digest?
Regards
D.B.er
However why not just join bm_allpilots and get the daily digest?
Regards
D.B.er
Why would I want to keep up to date with an outdated, ineffective organisation?
Why don't you phone the company on Monday morning and tell them you no longer wish to be rostered in accordance with the "outdated and ineffective" AFS, withdraw from the BUPA scheme and LOL insurance and also tell them that 1.5% OK for you. I am sure that you won't and will continue to freeload on the back of your subscription paying collegues. BALPA is certainly not perfect but it's the only union the company currently talks to and without them the AFS and everything else we have would end up in the bin.
Last edited by Max Angle; 4th Sep 2004 at 12:36.
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Fuzzy.... take note!
Fuzzy112.
Either JETSET747 did hit a nerve or you are a highly strung individual looking at your your reaction to the posts. J747 was merely illustrating a point. Yes! We’re not stupid we know that BALPA has now negotiated to make contributions tax deductible but the basic rule still applies: BALPA membership contributions are essentially 1% of salary. You have to register to get the tax back.
As for being “an idiot” I can assure that J747 most certainly is not! Quite the opposite I can tell you!
By comparison to other unions BALPA membership is very expensive. Yes! I agree with you and other recent posts that it’s nice to have an organisation to represent you when in negotiations with the management, but not when they appear to be in the pockets of the management. This is typical Midland. The GMB union which represents the Ground Staff also gives the same impression and has apparently advised their members to now accept the 1.5% … sorry 4.5% pay cut over 2 years … offer. It looks like BALPA doesn’t want to fight on now either. I wonder why?
Has someone sold their soul? We’ll see. Watch this space!
As for the effectiveness of BALPA J747 is quite right. I can think of instances where good chaps have made mistakes or committed minor indiscretions and BALPA has basically said. “You did it? Well you’re on your own pal!”
Personally, I think that we’d be better served by a more militant union like the T&GWU. Have you ever noticed how the Engineers always seem to get what they want?
Fuzzy. May I finish by reminding you that this is a forum for Professional Pilots to exchange information and rumours. It is not a forum for speculating on whether someone is academically challenged nor to exchange insults. Like me, I feel that J747 was venting pent up frustration over the years of “bullyboy” tactics used by the Midland management and were expressed with minor errors and some generalisations in order to make a point
I feel that calling someone “the idiot that you are” was unbecoming of a Professional Pilot, if indeed you are one. May be it was a deliberately provocative remark by someone with a vested interest perhaps?
Either JETSET747 did hit a nerve or you are a highly strung individual looking at your your reaction to the posts. J747 was merely illustrating a point. Yes! We’re not stupid we know that BALPA has now negotiated to make contributions tax deductible but the basic rule still applies: BALPA membership contributions are essentially 1% of salary. You have to register to get the tax back.
As for being “an idiot” I can assure that J747 most certainly is not! Quite the opposite I can tell you!
By comparison to other unions BALPA membership is very expensive. Yes! I agree with you and other recent posts that it’s nice to have an organisation to represent you when in negotiations with the management, but not when they appear to be in the pockets of the management. This is typical Midland. The GMB union which represents the Ground Staff also gives the same impression and has apparently advised their members to now accept the 1.5% … sorry 4.5% pay cut over 2 years … offer. It looks like BALPA doesn’t want to fight on now either. I wonder why?
Has someone sold their soul? We’ll see. Watch this space!
As for the effectiveness of BALPA J747 is quite right. I can think of instances where good chaps have made mistakes or committed minor indiscretions and BALPA has basically said. “You did it? Well you’re on your own pal!”
Personally, I think that we’d be better served by a more militant union like the T&GWU. Have you ever noticed how the Engineers always seem to get what they want?
Fuzzy. May I finish by reminding you that this is a forum for Professional Pilots to exchange information and rumours. It is not a forum for speculating on whether someone is academically challenged nor to exchange insults. Like me, I feel that J747 was venting pent up frustration over the years of “bullyboy” tactics used by the Midland management and were expressed with minor errors and some generalisations in order to make a point
I feel that calling someone “the idiot that you are” was unbecoming of a Professional Pilot, if indeed you are one. May be it was a deliberately provocative remark by someone with a vested interest perhaps?
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High bmi, you are making some pretty extraordinary statements. I don't suppose you will be able to offer any evidence. Most people like you never can. Whichever way you look at it, BALPA no longer costs 1% of salary - get your calculator out and work it out for your self!
Unless you are prepared to offer some evidence then I suggest you don't make statements like
What makes you come to that conclusion. The last update I got from BALPA indicated that the opposite was true, go on, justify what you have said. I suspect that you, like many others who use these forums could not do that if you tried. You simply use forums such as this a soap box for your ignorant, uninformed and outdated views but can't actually justify any of them. Looks like there are at least 2 idiots using these forums.
Max Angle summed it all up far better than me !
Unless you are prepared to offer some evidence then I suggest you don't make statements like
It looks like BALPA doesn’t want to fight on now either. I wonder why?
Max Angle summed it all up far better than me !
Have you ever noticed how the Engineers always seem to get what they want?
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Laughable!
engineers do not belong to a militant union like TGWU for a start.Most licenced guys join ALAE and any others the AEEU.The above posting is correct we are being screwed just the same only we are starting from a lower standard in the first place as regards t and c's.
engineers do not belong to a militant union like TGWU for a start.Most licenced guys join ALAE and any others the AEEU.The above posting is correct we are being screwed just the same only we are starting from a lower standard in the first place as regards t and c's.
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I just wanted to make a brief comment about the protections enjoyed in a non-low-cost, AFS-protected airline, to help get things in perspective. I have just worked 17 days out of the last 21 (NB on the 5-on-3-off typically worked under CAP 371, you will work at most 15 days out of 21). Last week, in my block of 6 days, I was technically working "lates" - but on four of the days, my report time meant I had to leave home (40 miles from the airport by motorway - not exactly the back of beyond) by 11 am. The other two days? I was nightstopping away from base. So no useful time at home last week from Tuesday to Sunday. With 6 years command seniority, I am just starting to get half the weeks leave that I actually want. And I flew about 30 hours last week. There were other pilots who worked harder.
Just to make it clear, that was with AFS protection. Also to make it clear, I don't have a great problem with this practice - it is a lot more productive, and wastes a lot fewer duty hours, than in previous years - and it does balance out over several months.
It would be nice if the union could move beyond the principle of guarding the AFS "at any price" and towards looking at what was actually happening and what people actually want.
Incidentally, I have been told that 5-on-3-off wouldn't work here a. because "we tried fixed days off before and nobody liked them" (must have been over 10 years ago - before my time! - when people got more than that days off anyway because they either did 4 early sectors or 4 lates and were only paid to do about 55 sectors a month) and b. "because you would end up with too many days not available for work compared to CAP371" (despite the fact that although the locos are only giving "eight" days off a month, in practice they work 5 on 3 off to balance flying across the year - so they actually work fewer days).
So as far as the company is concerned, the working practices of the locos would be too restrictive for them!
Just to make it clear, that was with AFS protection. Also to make it clear, I don't have a great problem with this practice - it is a lot more productive, and wastes a lot fewer duty hours, than in previous years - and it does balance out over several months.
It would be nice if the union could move beyond the principle of guarding the AFS "at any price" and towards looking at what was actually happening and what people actually want.
Incidentally, I have been told that 5-on-3-off wouldn't work here a. because "we tried fixed days off before and nobody liked them" (must have been over 10 years ago - before my time! - when people got more than that days off anyway because they either did 4 early sectors or 4 lates and were only paid to do about 55 sectors a month) and b. "because you would end up with too many days not available for work compared to CAP371" (despite the fact that although the locos are only giving "eight" days off a month, in practice they work 5 on 3 off to balance flying across the year - so they actually work fewer days).
So as far as the company is concerned, the working practices of the locos would be too restrictive for them!
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I work for a Lo cost airline. I have never done 5 on 3 off; current roster has 2x 6 on 2 off, then 2x 5 on 2 off. (Overlaps from last roster).
You are right about the AFS. Its only worth protecting if its any good.
Perhaps BALPA should take a leaf out of management and look at the big picture!
You are right about the AFS. Its only worth protecting if its any good.
Perhaps BALPA should take a leaf out of management and look at the big picture!
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A copy of the 'joining BALPA' page, from BALPA's own website...
Especially for Fuzzy112!
How to become a Member • Monday, September 6, 2004
To qualify for Full Membership you will need to hold a current commercial pilots licence or flight engineer licence and be engaged in British commercial flying. Alternatively you may be a ground instructor or helicopter winchman employed in British commercial flying.
If you meet the above criteria but are not engaged in British commercial flying you can join us as an Associate Member or Associate Trainee (for those actively training to obtain a commercial Pilot Licence).
You can apply online now by clicking here. We will then process your application and advise you of the category of Membership appropriate to you. We will also provide you with a Direct Debit form to enable collection of your subscriptions from a UK bank account or advise on any alternative payment methods available to those applicants not having a UK bank account.
How much will it cost?
Full Membership fees are based on a percentage of your salary at the 1st of January each year. There is a special reduction for new members in their first two years of membership as shown below. :
Year 1
Year 2
Year 3
Full Members
0.5%
0.75%
1%
*Please note that ground instructors and winchmen pay a fixed 0.5% of salary for all periods of membership.
Associate Membership costs £24 per annum.
Associate Trainee Membership is free of charge.
Fees are usually payable in advance but can be charged monthly if paid by direct debit.
Looks like 1% to me still. There may be tax benefits yes but if someone asks you what you earn do you give them the after tax figure? No! I can only quote on what I read, and what I wrote, according to the Union themselves, was factually correct.
I take on board your coments Max Angle but it is a free world. I was actually a member of BALPA for many years. All I saw though was that whenever anybody really needed them, they either didn't want to know (a certain tail scrape springs to mind) or weren't very effective. If you tried to claim on your car insurance and they didn't pay out, would you still use them the following year? Fuzzy112 probably would, I wouldn't. This is all I've done. Voted with my feet for what I consider an ineffectual Union. If you have different views, that's your perogative. I don't slate you for it. I'm not here to slate individual characters, it'd take too long. I have a life outside the company, many of you on here appear not to. I would rather not have BUPA cover from the company either or LOL. I would rather have the money they pay for them. They both offer very limited cover. I would put the money toward better policies. It's ok having these things but they have to be worth having. I was a BALPA member while a lot of these things were put in place. I've seen things starting to slip over the last few years though and BALPA are proving ineffective at stopping this slide. So I left. You choose to stay. That's up to you. Maybe it's time to form a different union? I'm off back to my life now, I'll maybe pass back this way in a few days to see how many of you are still off your perches!
PS Thanks 'High bmi' for the vote of confidence!
Especially for Fuzzy112!
How to become a Member • Monday, September 6, 2004
To qualify for Full Membership you will need to hold a current commercial pilots licence or flight engineer licence and be engaged in British commercial flying. Alternatively you may be a ground instructor or helicopter winchman employed in British commercial flying.
If you meet the above criteria but are not engaged in British commercial flying you can join us as an Associate Member or Associate Trainee (for those actively training to obtain a commercial Pilot Licence).
You can apply online now by clicking here. We will then process your application and advise you of the category of Membership appropriate to you. We will also provide you with a Direct Debit form to enable collection of your subscriptions from a UK bank account or advise on any alternative payment methods available to those applicants not having a UK bank account.
How much will it cost?
Full Membership fees are based on a percentage of your salary at the 1st of January each year. There is a special reduction for new members in their first two years of membership as shown below. :
Year 1
Year 2
Year 3
Full Members
0.5%
0.75%
1%
*Please note that ground instructors and winchmen pay a fixed 0.5% of salary for all periods of membership.
Associate Membership costs £24 per annum.
Associate Trainee Membership is free of charge.
Fees are usually payable in advance but can be charged monthly if paid by direct debit.
Looks like 1% to me still. There may be tax benefits yes but if someone asks you what you earn do you give them the after tax figure? No! I can only quote on what I read, and what I wrote, according to the Union themselves, was factually correct.
I take on board your coments Max Angle but it is a free world. I was actually a member of BALPA for many years. All I saw though was that whenever anybody really needed them, they either didn't want to know (a certain tail scrape springs to mind) or weren't very effective. If you tried to claim on your car insurance and they didn't pay out, would you still use them the following year? Fuzzy112 probably would, I wouldn't. This is all I've done. Voted with my feet for what I consider an ineffectual Union. If you have different views, that's your perogative. I don't slate you for it. I'm not here to slate individual characters, it'd take too long. I have a life outside the company, many of you on here appear not to. I would rather not have BUPA cover from the company either or LOL. I would rather have the money they pay for them. They both offer very limited cover. I would put the money toward better policies. It's ok having these things but they have to be worth having. I was a BALPA member while a lot of these things were put in place. I've seen things starting to slip over the last few years though and BALPA are proving ineffective at stopping this slide. So I left. You choose to stay. That's up to you. Maybe it's time to form a different union? I'm off back to my life now, I'll maybe pass back this way in a few days to see how many of you are still off your perches!
PS Thanks 'High bmi' for the vote of confidence!
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jetset747
If a car is on sale for £10000 and you get £1000 cash back, how much has the car cost? The most likely reason the home page has not changed is because this has only just happened and, if you were a BALPA member, you would know about it!
If a car is on sale for £10000 and you get £1000 cash back, how much has the car cost? The most likely reason the home page has not changed is because this has only just happened and, if you were a BALPA member, you would know about it!
Last edited by Fuzzy112; 7th Sep 2004 at 20:18.
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My words from a previous post quoted, "Outdated Organisation" in reference to BALPA. This has just confirmed it. If what you state is true, then it just goes to show that even their website is outdated too! This sums them up perfectly. Thank you for providing the evidence Fuzzy112.
Anyway, if you put as much effort into fighting the pilots' corner at bmi as you put into this drivel, they might stand a chance of getting a decent result. I fear though the inevitible result will speak for itself. I hope for all their sakes I'm wrong though. Getting back to the original thread, about a strike I think it was, nah, won't happen.
I rest my case.
Anyway, if you put as much effort into fighting the pilots' corner at bmi as you put into this drivel, they might stand a chance of getting a decent result. I fear though the inevitible result will speak for itself. I hope for all their sakes I'm wrong though. Getting back to the original thread, about a strike I think it was, nah, won't happen.
I rest my case.
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Funny how a thread in which you have been an active participant turns out to be drivel all of a sudden. When I were a lad they called it subtraction, not sure about Fuzzy logic. A bit concerned that the original calculation was a bit of a challenge for you JetSet, still I never was one to have the last word.......just for the sake of it....
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The engineers have been shafted for years over pay deals.This year we appear to be holding out for a better raise (ie above 1.5%).We are constantly under threat of outsourcing of engineering both for line maintenance and base maintenance. We didn't get a raise last year due to the financial position of the airline .This year we are offered 1.5% and the financial position is meant to be worse !Somebody is telling porky's .The engineering morale has never been so low.Could be a good year for a strike !!!!!!!!
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The talks are ongoing. Far from apathy many are willing to give the company a chance to find a positive way forward. However in light of what happened with Baby’s pay deal it may all fall apart very quickly.
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.........in light of what happened with Baby’s pay deal it may all fall apart very quickly.
The sheer apathy and timid willingness of those pilots who moved from Mainline to baby in the first place (accepting, if you analyse it, far worse pay, including pension, and definitely far worse conditions) is testimony to the invertebrate characters who infest the workforce. BALPA actually encouraged that capitulation, rather than look after the interests of its members!
Divide and conquer. Mainline next. The whole thing is falling apart and BALPA is the glue holding it all together.........not!
