Age Discrimination - help needed!
Delay? What delay?
Join Date: Feb 2001
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D 129
Apparently the laws of supply and demand do not apply in your world then. The world does not owe you a living, and the only reason airlines make pilots pay for their own qualification is because there is a seemingly inexhaustable supply of people who are prepared to pay. That is their own choice and to choose to pay with no guarantee of work and then complain is not too clever, is it? Once you make your bed you lie in it, or you start making another bed, (that is more likely to be comfortable to continue the analogy). Whining will not change things.
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Hi all!
Before fighting for a possibility to delay the retirement age limit, think of this:
If I remember well, a few years ago a british study (if not a BA study) was establishing a life expectancy of 65 or 67 for pilots!
Do you really want to leave your office horizontally............
Cheers
JP
Before fighting for a possibility to delay the retirement age limit, think of this:
If I remember well, a few years ago a british study (if not a BA study) was establishing a life expectancy of 65 or 67 for pilots!
Do you really want to leave your office horizontally............
Cheers
JP
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For goodness sake. The usual vitriol from TandemRotor on this subject is astonishingly joined by a lot of people.
If some of you are suggesting that because you spent/invested a lot in your career then people in the last decade should move over to allow you to recoup your investment - Get a life.
What a contradictory argument. Not everyone has 29 years in BA and an appropriate pension - and even if they had, this is not something they have lobbied for, it is a legal change to align retirement ages more uniformly. The whole airline pilot recruitment business is cynically manipulated by employers attempting to maximise profits and minimise overheads. If a lot of you wannabees did your research more carefully, then Airlines would have been unable to drive down the real remuneration levels the way they actually have over the last ten to fifteen years. If that had not happened, maybe people WOULD be able to retire as early as they really wanted to. Following this argument on a bit, I suppose all you plonkers who have or are trying to enter the industry with your alleged huge loans will be equally happy to retire early to allow the next set of fools who have borrowed even more to accept evn more of a salary shafting, and who are now snapping at your own heels wanting YOUR jobs!!!! Get a life sonnies!!
Wet behind the ears - that's what you are!
If some of you are suggesting that because you spent/invested a lot in your career then people in the last decade should move over to allow you to recoup your investment - Get a life.
What a contradictory argument. Not everyone has 29 years in BA and an appropriate pension - and even if they had, this is not something they have lobbied for, it is a legal change to align retirement ages more uniformly. The whole airline pilot recruitment business is cynically manipulated by employers attempting to maximise profits and minimise overheads. If a lot of you wannabees did your research more carefully, then Airlines would have been unable to drive down the real remuneration levels the way they actually have over the last ten to fifteen years. If that had not happened, maybe people WOULD be able to retire as early as they really wanted to. Following this argument on a bit, I suppose all you plonkers who have or are trying to enter the industry with your alleged huge loans will be equally happy to retire early to allow the next set of fools who have borrowed even more to accept evn more of a salary shafting, and who are now snapping at your own heels wanting YOUR jobs!!!! Get a life sonnies!!
Wet behind the ears - that's what you are!
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Yog-Sothoth
So that's the way the "seniors" are looking down at the "juniors"!
Continue longer after 60 just to be able to cash in more of the salary we will never ever reach!
Now you are a nice guy...
Maybe -if you don't have Alzheimer yet- you still remember what kind of unimaginable drive you had to become pilot.
I had it, was not a lot of info available from the pilots I know -most at the top don't have a single clou what's going on at the bottom- and started the school.
Then you get the choice: pay or stay.
So you pay just to be able to start working.
Then you see that there is so much scum around in the flighttraining business that you wish you could warn everybody!
But there I am, flying, happy, and hoping my job still exists in 30 years from now.
So maybe we are extremely wet behind the ears, but us youngsters are definitely being put up with more worries and difficult decisions (outside the cockpit, that is) than most of the senior pilots who are flying for thirty years ever had.
So please, don't start bashing us now, since this is the last thing we deserve.
And about the retirement age: do what makes you happy, in Holland some Martinair guys tried the same, but failed. Their majority of collaegues was happy with this decision of the court, since now they would not be obliged to work longer.
So in that respect PonF is right.
What I'm trying to say is: just continue until you drop dead in the galley, but don't be surprised if your FO is picking up the holding after that!
So that's the way the "seniors" are looking down at the "juniors"!
Continue longer after 60 just to be able to cash in more of the salary we will never ever reach!
Now you are a nice guy...
Maybe -if you don't have Alzheimer yet- you still remember what kind of unimaginable drive you had to become pilot.
I had it, was not a lot of info available from the pilots I know -most at the top don't have a single clou what's going on at the bottom- and started the school.
Then you get the choice: pay or stay.
So you pay just to be able to start working.
Then you see that there is so much scum around in the flighttraining business that you wish you could warn everybody!
But there I am, flying, happy, and hoping my job still exists in 30 years from now.
So maybe we are extremely wet behind the ears, but us youngsters are definitely being put up with more worries and difficult decisions (outside the cockpit, that is) than most of the senior pilots who are flying for thirty years ever had.
So please, don't start bashing us now, since this is the last thing we deserve.
And about the retirement age: do what makes you happy, in Holland some Martinair guys tried the same, but failed. Their majority of collaegues was happy with this decision of the court, since now they would not be obliged to work longer.
So in that respect PonF is right.
What I'm trying to say is: just continue until you drop dead in the galley, but don't be surprised if your FO is picking up the holding after that!
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pilot retirement
SRJUMBO
well I will tell you older guys are not necessarely selfish
it is a long battle for everyone to access in this industry
not every pilot goes into majors with huge benefits
and when you finally get into your seat you enjoy the job keep in mind that many countries do not recognize pilots other than standard employees and that means
no pension before age 65 will you call this bad management ?I went my way up in civil aviation with
motivation and it took a long wile to get what I was aiming for. the industy is clogged and many companies are run by stupid managers,meanwhile when EASA will take over the JAR stuff retirement will become 65 anyway and all the restrictions removed besides I will certainly not go to work an extra few years in a baker shop till I retire,remember younger lads will eventually get older but before you get the experience you might
tink twice you might than ask youself why not restrict doctors surgeons at age 55 they make a lot more bucks then we can ever get flying!and they threathen ones life
every day,in the mean time no offense don't worry be happy
well I will tell you older guys are not necessarely selfish
it is a long battle for everyone to access in this industry
not every pilot goes into majors with huge benefits
and when you finally get into your seat you enjoy the job keep in mind that many countries do not recognize pilots other than standard employees and that means
no pension before age 65 will you call this bad management ?I went my way up in civil aviation with
motivation and it took a long wile to get what I was aiming for. the industy is clogged and many companies are run by stupid managers,meanwhile when EASA will take over the JAR stuff retirement will become 65 anyway and all the restrictions removed besides I will certainly not go to work an extra few years in a baker shop till I retire,remember younger lads will eventually get older but before you get the experience you might
tink twice you might than ask youself why not restrict doctors surgeons at age 55 they make a lot more bucks then we can ever get flying!and they threathen ones life
every day,in the mean time no offense don't worry be happy
Join Date: Feb 2004
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There was also a thread recently on either the African Aviation or the Rotorheads forum where a number of pilots were laid off by Bristow in Nigeria because they were over the age of 57. This wadone at the insistence of Mobil, but on what grounds, heaven only knows. I wonder where they stand in law (NRA for Bristow is 58). 
OK, keeping up a not so old thread…..
Beancounters want new guys because they're cheaper.
Passengers want experience because it makes them feel safer.
Old guys want to make the most of their last years because that is where the rewards are greatest and the experience related workload least.
New guys want to get to where old guys are for the same reasons the old guys already there don't want to leave.
To claim that an £80000 debt is a higher risk than the accident rate when 55year olds started flying is debatable.
In other words, grow up, smell the coffee, pick another bumper sticker, but realise that the world doesn't end at the perimeters of your own camp.
Selfishness starts at home. Especially with those who haven't left it yet.
Beancounters want new guys because they're cheaper.
Passengers want experience because it makes them feel safer.
Old guys want to make the most of their last years because that is where the rewards are greatest and the experience related workload least.
New guys want to get to where old guys are for the same reasons the old guys already there don't want to leave.
To claim that an £80000 debt is a higher risk than the accident rate when 55year olds started flying is debatable.
In other words, grow up, smell the coffee, pick another bumper sticker, but realise that the world doesn't end at the perimeters of your own camp.
Selfishness starts at home. Especially with those who haven't left it yet.
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Gentleman,
I have been an observer of this Forum for many years, seriously concerning in replying to a posting or even making a comment about any matter concerning to our profession, and the main reason is that because individuals like SRJUMBO, Tandemrotor, and others.
It is sickening to see an individual who thinks that everybody around him is “an obstacle to his success and career” .
PACKSONFLITE:
I know that you asked about UK companies, but allow me to give you some feedback.
There are other JAA member states, which have +60 pilots on their fleets, to mention one, Holland.
In the other hand, the Germans have created a system, which pilots can gradually retire, until the age of 60, if they want.
Some pilots, they had the luck to work for a major airline until the last day of their careers, and then they can enjoy a nice retirement, and stay at home.
This is an important issue, and if this Forum is for the benefit of all PROFESSIONAL PILOTS, then let us uses it.
Mercurius !
I have been an observer of this Forum for many years, seriously concerning in replying to a posting or even making a comment about any matter concerning to our profession, and the main reason is that because individuals like SRJUMBO, Tandemrotor, and others.
It is sickening to see an individual who thinks that everybody around him is “an obstacle to his success and career” .
PACKSONFLITE:
I know that you asked about UK companies, but allow me to give you some feedback.
There are other JAA member states, which have +60 pilots on their fleets, to mention one, Holland.
In the other hand, the Germans have created a system, which pilots can gradually retire, until the age of 60, if they want.
Some pilots, they had the luck to work for a major airline until the last day of their careers, and then they can enjoy a nice retirement, and stay at home.
This is an important issue, and if this Forum is for the benefit of all PROFESSIONAL PILOTS, then let us uses it.
Mercurius !
I Have Control
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Back to school srjumbo..and then grow up. I started flying at 41, now 50 and flying long-haul. Planning to keep flying beyond 60 if possible,And I don't want to fly alongside people with your attitude..it would be an unpleasant time.
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RoyHudd
Good lord man.
Are you talking about a post from a MONTH ago? Hey, what's the rush? Seems to me srjumbo made a valid point. Was his only crime to disagree with you?
Do you imagine it pleasant to fly with somebody, with YOUR attitude?
Time you learned that yours isn't the ONLY point of view!
After 9 years of flying, it isn't even a very experienced viewpoint!
There is a difference of opinion here. Nobody needs to get personal!
(BTW, what's the "long haul" got to do with anything?)
Good lord man.
Are you talking about a post from a MONTH ago? Hey, what's the rush? Seems to me srjumbo made a valid point. Was his only crime to disagree with you?
Do you imagine it pleasant to fly with somebody, with YOUR attitude?
Time you learned that yours isn't the ONLY point of view!
After 9 years of flying, it isn't even a very experienced viewpoint!
There is a difference of opinion here. Nobody needs to get personal!
(BTW, what's the "long haul" got to do with anything?)
I Have Control
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No need to shout TandemRotor. Or to get personal. Strange that you consider the critical comments about older pilots "valid", given your views expressed on Danny's new and interesting thread.
I love my flying and wish to continue as long as I am able. As an ex-plumber and tradesman myself, I find your comments in Forums particularly hard to take, given your experience as a long-term pro pilot. My pride in flying long-haul simply relates to the achievement (personal) of flying big and advanced aircraft, having started this profession late in life compared to many. Working one's way up is not so easy. And please don't offer your reasons why I should have learnt this as a personal attack.
I love my flying and wish to continue as long as I am able. As an ex-plumber and tradesman myself, I find your comments in Forums particularly hard to take, given your experience as a long-term pro pilot. My pride in flying long-haul simply relates to the achievement (personal) of flying big and advanced aircraft, having started this profession late in life compared to many. Working one's way up is not so easy. And please don't offer your reasons why I should have learnt this as a personal attack.
