Ryanair or easyjet - difficult choice ???

[omoko joe]

and in some companies, Command abilities are based on what Squadron you came from. Sad but true. Anyone care to comment on the way Ryanair conduct their assessments?

[Yarpy]

Whippersnapper, that's an interesting point you make about the FO who refused to go into discretion and, as a result, has his command assessment deferred.

It sounds like the guy made a sound operational decision. That is exactly what you would expect a responsible Captain to do.

Why not promote him?

[Doug the Head]

Hi Whippersnapper,

Quick question. Having dual citizenship for Belgium and The Netherlands, I’m quite interested to know why there is such a political bias against Dutch F/O’s within easyJet?

I have a 737 rating and I am considering EZY. What's the deal against the Dutch?

[Rocket Ron]

There are many things wrong with easyJet at the moment, but I would venture to suggest that the command process is not one of them.

Substantial numbers of my colleagues have been given their (well deserved) commands recently, and those I spoke to said that the assessment process and command course was fair and very thorough.

The only aspect of gaining promotion that I personally disagree with is the requirement to be sent to a non-preferred base for an indeterminate period of time, usually to accommodate direct-entry Captains.

For what it's worth I'd mention that I've found the training at easyJet to be second to none.

ps I don't see any bias whatsoever against Dutch F/O's - my F/O's have all been Dutch this week!

[Whippersnapper]

There is no bias against the Dutch per se, it's just that they are all very young, and I think it's also pretty normal in Dutch culture to be fairly direct (not rude, but to be simply straight talking). This means that they are often less politic than others (this is NOT a criticism - I admire honesty). They are also easily identifiable, so making it more obvious how they are treated.

As for the English FO passed over because they didn't go into discretion, well the captain and the FO were to be disciplined, but BALPA managed to stop it. The FO was used as an example to other FOs who might not do as they were told.

[Whippersnapper]

I forgot to mention that Rocket's perspective is substantially different from most.

We all know of several individuals who should never have been promoted, but brown-nosed their way up, and of countless FOs who are being given the most ridiculous of excuses (if any) for not being given an assessment. While MOST of the promotions are well deserved, there is a flagrant abuse of the system by managers in order to threaten stronger willed FOs who have concerns over the way the company operates, and vendettas are common place.

[Yarpy]

Threatening a crew with disciplinary action because they refused to operate into discretion is dreadful.

Presumably the company invoked a 'gross misconduct' clause?

I haven't seen an easyJet contract but would be amazed if any reference to use of discretion was made. Did the CAA Flight Ops Inspector get to hear of this?

The implication is obvious. Crews might operate into discretion when they truly should not be flying.

[Fifty Above]

Whippersnapper very strong words indeed; I'm sure that if you are able to substantiate your allegations, then they will be investigated by the CC.

A command candidate acquaintance of mine echoed similar vitriolic and unsubstantiated claims of victimisation and unfair treatment not so long ago. I was feeling sympathy towards him until I heard the other side of the story - he'd spent his free time on the command course filandering with new recruits, fell asleep during one of the lectures, abused his sim partner and finally had a row with his instructor!

"Strong willed" might be interpreted by others as being overbearing and intransigent - not qualities of a good skipper imho.

ps forgot to mention that you appear to work for NOW - good luck with the early command!

[Whippersnapper]

As I said, the CC dealt with it very quickly, and the skipper was left unmolested. The FO still has not been given an assessment, dispite a very good line reputation and meeting all the company criteria. Of couse, excuses are made and there is no reference on file to the true cause as the original intended disciplinary was illegal. The discretion incident was a long time ago, when the rostering was in chaos due to the pairing system and the transition onto Carmen (Sep 2002). That goes to show how long some grudges are kept. I hasten to add that this is 1 example; there are many others, especially at LTN.

I do appreciate that the term "strong willed"! could be interpreted many ways. What I meant was that if any questioning or circumspection is shown, this causes an unusually high level of friction with the management. Any cynicism or refusal to obey orders (no matter whether they're daft or not) and you career progression will be stopped dead. I want to make clear that not all the mgmt behave this way, but come bases have a strong tendency in this direction.

I agree that intransigence is undesireable in a captain, but sometimes you cannot just go along with things. It also has to be considered that some are more forceful in their dealings with the company than they are with other crew members as the company tries to walk all over them, while their colleagues do not.