Winglets - Benefit?
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Cuban_8:
ROFL twice. You can kiss my butt with your tongue out!!! The type of flight test flying I do would make most commercial pilots wet their pants and never set foot on an airplane again. All I do is improve performance. I have many STCs for aftermarket performance for Boeing aircraft. Actually working on one for ScareBUS right now.
ROFL twice. You can kiss my butt with your tongue out!!! The type of flight test flying I do would make most commercial pilots wet their pants and never set foot on an airplane again. All I do is improve performance. I have many STCs for aftermarket performance for Boeing aircraft. Actually working on one for ScareBUS right now.
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747Focal
I have a masters degree in aeronautical engineering. True, it's not everything but it sure put me above the average bod, therefore I do understand something about aircraft performance.
The point I'm trying to put across is that since the 747X is in direct competition with the Airbus 380, the designers should have considered keeping some of the take off and landing speeds on par with most of today's a/c. Damn even concorde lands slower than that and it's a delta wing.
These 350kt take off supersonic aeroplanes. Where's their competition? and who's going to build a long enough runway? (lest you wish to feel the acceleration of an F1 car)
The A380 is bigger than the 747X..(that's why Fedex chose it) and if it can take off and land at slower speeds than your precious boeing, that's just 1 more advantage Airbus will have over you.
Ohh and they will be able to evacuate within 90 seconds....it's that fat momma BWB that leaves people inside like an oven....wasn't that a boeing idea?
(To any gentle people reading, I like boeing just as much as Airbus, they both have wings and you can fly them. My negative statement on boeing is only to show that they shouldn't start to throw little tantrums (not you 747Focal) and get snotty just because they're about to lose the number 1 spot)
I have a masters degree in aeronautical engineering. True, it's not everything but it sure put me above the average bod, therefore I do understand something about aircraft performance.
The point I'm trying to put across is that since the 747X is in direct competition with the Airbus 380, the designers should have considered keeping some of the take off and landing speeds on par with most of today's a/c. Damn even concorde lands slower than that and it's a delta wing.
These 350kt take off supersonic aeroplanes. Where's their competition? and who's going to build a long enough runway? (lest you wish to feel the acceleration of an F1 car)
The A380 is bigger than the 747X..(that's why Fedex chose it) and if it can take off and land at slower speeds than your precious boeing, that's just 1 more advantage Airbus will have over you.
Ohh and they will be able to evacuate within 90 seconds....it's that fat momma BWB that leaves people inside like an oven....wasn't that a boeing idea?
(To any gentle people reading, I like boeing just as much as Airbus, they both have wings and you can fly them. My negative statement on boeing is only to show that they shouldn't start to throw little tantrums (not you 747Focal) and get snotty just because they're about to lose the number 1 spot)
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CEPPO- From your response I can tell that you do understand performance and know something about how aviation works. Congrats, most do not.
Aviation has been in a long battle with airport communities as far as noise goes. Yes we have come great strides from the 707 days. We used to be able to look at an engine configuration and make some changes and get several dB out of the noise footprint. Now we struggle to get tenths of dBs. The only way that noise will ever drop below the noise floor will be speed to increase climb performance.
The only way to get a supersonic airplane to make noise requirements without putting a muffler on each engine the size of a school bus is to make it leave the area so fast you thought you heard it but when you looked it wasn't there.
Noise used to be the last considered when designing an airplane. Now it must be considered first, in the middle, and last.
All I was really trying to get across is that all things evolve and those that cling like babies to the past and do not reach out to see what is possible hurt aviation. I am for safety in the end at all times. I have parts that I personally designed and certified that fly on hundreds of aircraft worldwide. These parts must hold up in the most crittle phases of flight, takeoff and landing. If one of those fails and kills a plane load of people I would leave aviation. It just wouldn't be worth it anymore. The same with the performance stuff, if I thought it was dangerous and not just a different way of looking outside the box, I wouldn't be pushing it.
I am sure that when the first guy said I am going to put a human in a missle and send him into space got laughed out of the room.
[This message has been edited by 747FOCAL (edited 14 March 2001).]
Aviation has been in a long battle with airport communities as far as noise goes. Yes we have come great strides from the 707 days. We used to be able to look at an engine configuration and make some changes and get several dB out of the noise footprint. Now we struggle to get tenths of dBs. The only way that noise will ever drop below the noise floor will be speed to increase climb performance.
The only way to get a supersonic airplane to make noise requirements without putting a muffler on each engine the size of a school bus is to make it leave the area so fast you thought you heard it but when you looked it wasn't there.
Noise used to be the last considered when designing an airplane. Now it must be considered first, in the middle, and last.
All I was really trying to get across is that all things evolve and those that cling like babies to the past and do not reach out to see what is possible hurt aviation. I am for safety in the end at all times. I have parts that I personally designed and certified that fly on hundreds of aircraft worldwide. These parts must hold up in the most crittle phases of flight, takeoff and landing. If one of those fails and kills a plane load of people I would leave aviation. It just wouldn't be worth it anymore. The same with the performance stuff, if I thought it was dangerous and not just a different way of looking outside the box, I wouldn't be pushing it.
I am sure that when the first guy said I am going to put a human in a missle and send him into space got laughed out of the room.
[This message has been edited by 747FOCAL (edited 14 March 2001).]
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747focal,
if all 747 derivatives could pass the pax evacuation check why shouldn't the A380 ? Just because it's a few feet highter? As You said, everything evolves, and so do escape slide technologies
for the statement about aircraft noise, if I got it right, during approach/landing with an A320 the greatest source of noise is not the engine anymore, it's the air travelling over extended flaps and landing gear. So what about increasing speeds, it's increasing airframe noise.
And for rotation speeds above 350 kts, what kind of tyres will those planes have ? Full aluminium discs as the latest speed-record cars ? Certainly aborted take-offs would be very interesting with the amount of grip they are producing, but then we are talking about a 20 kilometer runway anyway.
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This Airbus is o.k., but why did it come with a RENAULT key ??
if all 747 derivatives could pass the pax evacuation check why shouldn't the A380 ? Just because it's a few feet highter? As You said, everything evolves, and so do escape slide technologies
for the statement about aircraft noise, if I got it right, during approach/landing with an A320 the greatest source of noise is not the engine anymore, it's the air travelling over extended flaps and landing gear. So what about increasing speeds, it's increasing airframe noise.
And for rotation speeds above 350 kts, what kind of tyres will those planes have ? Full aluminium discs as the latest speed-record cars ? Certainly aborted take-offs would be very interesting with the amount of grip they are producing, but then we are talking about a 20 kilometer runway anyway.
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This Airbus is o.k., but why did it come with a RENAULT key ??
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maxmobil- You have some good points and some stupid ones. The upper deck of a 747 has only about 20 people at most on it. Not 300+ like the A380. The 747 passed 90 second evac by a mere .5 second with 550 for Japan Airlines. How do you think they are going to another 300 off in that .5 second and not pile people up at the bottom of the slides??? From 6 stories up, how fast do you think they will be moving at the bottom??? If they lengthen them to cut the angle they will blow all over the place.
The A320 has high airframe noise and I can fix that, but it is proprietary so you won't see it here.
So is the landing gear configuration of the PD Supersonic airliners. But I can tell you that they have parachutes for emergencies on RTO and landing.
The A320 has high airframe noise and I can fix that, but it is proprietary so you won't see it here.
So is the landing gear configuration of the PD Supersonic airliners. But I can tell you that they have parachutes for emergencies on RTO and landing.
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All,
Absolute rubbish. The 747X cetinaly DOES NOT have design point rotation speeds in the region of 350 kts. Also, can you inform me of any manufacturer or organisation that has taken the design of the next generation of supersonic transport aircraft past the conceptual stage??(yet alone pin-point the rotation speed to 350 kts).
Finally, I can assure you that the A380 WILL satisfy the necessary JAR and FAA requirements!
Cheers,
Cuban_8
[This message has been edited by Cuban_8 (edited 14 March 2001).]
Absolute rubbish. The 747X cetinaly DOES NOT have design point rotation speeds in the region of 350 kts. Also, can you inform me of any manufacturer or organisation that has taken the design of the next generation of supersonic transport aircraft past the conceptual stage??(yet alone pin-point the rotation speed to 350 kts).
Finally, I can assure you that the A380 WILL satisfy the necessary JAR and FAA requirements!
Cheers,
Cuban_8
[This message has been edited by Cuban_8 (edited 14 March 2001).]
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maxmobil-
>>the approach climb limiting WEIGHT, which is with G/A thrust, landing flaps and gear still down.<<
Actually, that's the description of LANDING CLIMB. Approach Climb is with one engine inoperative, approach flaps and gear up.
>>the approach climb limiting WEIGHT, which is with G/A thrust, landing flaps and gear still down.<<
Actually, that's the description of LANDING CLIMB. Approach Climb is with one engine inoperative, approach flaps and gear up.
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747FOCAL,
>>The upper deck of a 747 has only about 20 people at most on it. Not 300+ like the A380.
And that's why they put eight emergency exits on the upperdeck of the 380
BTW, before this is getting silly, what is the actual height difference between the 747 upperdeck emergency exits and the A 380 upperdeck emrgency exits? As the total height of the 380 is only 4 meters higher than the 747, I would estimate the difference of the door sill height of the 380 upperdeck compared to the 747 is about 2 meters. So this can't be too much a problem ?
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This Airbus is o.k., but why did it come with a RENAULT key ??
>>The upper deck of a 747 has only about 20 people at most on it. Not 300+ like the A380.
And that's why they put eight emergency exits on the upperdeck of the 380
BTW, before this is getting silly, what is the actual height difference between the 747 upperdeck emergency exits and the A 380 upperdeck emrgency exits? As the total height of the 380 is only 4 meters higher than the 747, I would estimate the difference of the door sill height of the 380 upperdeck compared to the 747 is about 2 meters. So this can't be too much a problem ?
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This Airbus is o.k., but why did it come with a RENAULT key ??
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Thats why ScareBUS is trying to eliminate the need for extra emergency exits already.... RIGHT??? Think about it... you are tasked with getting 800+ people from one spot to another in less than 90 seconds.... The noise level, the higher chance that you have allot more passengers that will block exits(ie FAT PEOPLE, OLD, SICK, ETC) with higher pax counts.... It will make a great freighter, but that is all.
