Circle to Land. Airbus/Boeing Procedures?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Arabian Gulf
Circle to Land. Airbus/Boeing Procedures?
Circle to land, circling, circling approaches, etc..
Looking at Boeing and Airbus's procedures for a circle to land.
Boeing - Landing flaps while leaving downwind leg? Disconnect autopilot and autothrottle when intercepting the landing profile on finals!
Airbus - Gear and Full flaps just prior to turning finals?
Am I right? (Please correct me.)
Now....Isn't it a bit late?
When do you disconnect the autopilot? It's supposed to be visual! Do you need to fly it manually (to get a full 30 degree bank)?
Won't there be a distraction to the pilot flying to make these configuration changes, and then ask him to verify the landing checks below a 1000ft (400-500?) in marginal weather? eek: (ok, airbus has ECAM):
What about his inner ear with the head movement?
Please consider aircraft limiting conditions - Max landing weight, high temperatures and high pressure altitudes (high TAS).
Is it possible to have 'one' procedure with config stages, for both types of aircraft?
Just curious what the world does!
Ta.
Looking at Boeing and Airbus's procedures for a circle to land.
Boeing - Landing flaps while leaving downwind leg? Disconnect autopilot and autothrottle when intercepting the landing profile on finals!
Airbus - Gear and Full flaps just prior to turning finals?
Am I right? (Please correct me.)
Now....Isn't it a bit late?
When do you disconnect the autopilot? It's supposed to be visual! Do you need to fly it manually (to get a full 30 degree bank)?
Won't there be a distraction to the pilot flying to make these configuration changes, and then ask him to verify the landing checks below a 1000ft (400-500?) in marginal weather? eek: (ok, airbus has ECAM):
What about his inner ear with the head movement?
Please consider aircraft limiting conditions - Max landing weight, high temperatures and high pressure altitudes (high TAS).
Is it possible to have 'one' procedure with config stages, for both types of aircraft?
Just curious what the world does!
Ta.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 3
From: Arizona USA
Safety_worker---
Not so much the aircraft manufacturer as the individual airline.
All airlines that I have worked for require "gear down" at the final approach fix, with approach flap (intermediate) setting, and landing flap selected when on the final descent to the runway. Note that this could be from base leg or from final. I was trained this way by (the original) Pan American and it seemed to work very well for the B707. Later on in the TriStar, same procedures. This has the added advantage for the new F/O's in that they need only call for landing flap when required.
Simple concise procedures lead to safety. Others try to reinvent the wheel, which makes no sense whatsoever, IMHO.
Not so much the aircraft manufacturer as the individual airline.
All airlines that I have worked for require "gear down" at the final approach fix, with approach flap (intermediate) setting, and landing flap selected when on the final descent to the runway. Note that this could be from base leg or from final. I was trained this way by (the original) Pan American and it seemed to work very well for the B707. Later on in the TriStar, same procedures. This has the added advantage for the new F/O's in that they need only call for landing flap when required.
Simple concise procedures lead to safety. Others try to reinvent the wheel, which makes no sense whatsoever, IMHO.
INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
From: Middle East
Here is the Boeing circle to land...
(737-300/400/500 Both Engines Operating)
The circling approach should be flown with langing gear down, flaps 15 and at flaps 15 maneuvering speed.
Maintain MDA (ALT HOLD mode) and use Heading Select for tracking. The Circling must be excecuted at or above MDA and Visual contact must be maintained at all times.
Prior to turning Base leg, select landing flaps and beging decelerating to the approach speed (Vref + 5). This assures minimum turning radius to the runway. Complete the landing checklist. Do not decend below MDA until intercepting normal visual glide path.
Leaving MDA, disconnect the autopilot. After intercepting the visual profile, cycle both Flight Directors to OFF then ON. This eliminates unwanted commands and allows Flight Director guidance in the event of a Go-Around.
************
Well, variations will apply depending on company procedures and type of Boeing aircraft but I'm sure they will not differ too widely from the Boeing recommended procedures. Hope this is of some help...
(737-300/400/500 Both Engines Operating)
The circling approach should be flown with langing gear down, flaps 15 and at flaps 15 maneuvering speed.
Maintain MDA (ALT HOLD mode) and use Heading Select for tracking. The Circling must be excecuted at or above MDA and Visual contact must be maintained at all times.
Prior to turning Base leg, select landing flaps and beging decelerating to the approach speed (Vref + 5). This assures minimum turning radius to the runway. Complete the landing checklist. Do not decend below MDA until intercepting normal visual glide path.
Leaving MDA, disconnect the autopilot. After intercepting the visual profile, cycle both Flight Directors to OFF then ON. This eliminates unwanted commands and allows Flight Director guidance in the event of a Go-Around.
************
Well, variations will apply depending on company procedures and type of Boeing aircraft but I'm sure they will not differ too widely from the Boeing recommended procedures. Hope this is of some help...
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Arabian Gulf
Silky, When do you take the gear and full flaps?
QNH1013, do you have a landing checklist 'holding at flaps' procedure for this, or, do you start the whole checklist when flaps30 is selected?
A few questions -
1. How many circling approaches have you done in the lst 2 years?
2. How often do you train/practice this manoeuver?(including go-arounds)
Not trying to re-invent the wheel. Just curious to see if a 'standard' safe procedure across the airline which flies both types of aircraft, can be established.
Curious, how often operators practice / refresher train their pilots for this manoeuver.
QNH1013, do you have a landing checklist 'holding at flaps' procedure for this, or, do you start the whole checklist when flaps30 is selected?
A few questions -
1. How many circling approaches have you done in the lst 2 years?
2. How often do you train/practice this manoeuver?(including go-arounds)
Not trying to re-invent the wheel. Just curious to see if a 'standard' safe procedure across the airline which flies both types of aircraft, can be established.
Curious, how often operators practice / refresher train their pilots for this manoeuver.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Arabian Gulf
Silky - 1500AAL for a circling? Shouldn't it be at MDA? Or does y0ur company specify 1500AAl or MDA whichever higher? Which aircraft do you fly?
Thoughts are not posted here, just the procedures? Please read my first post. I am interested in how the piot 'feels' flying the laid down procedure.
Ta all.
Thoughts are not posted here, just the procedures? Please read my first post. I am interested in how the piot 'feels' flying the laid down procedure.
Ta all.
Joined: Aug 1998
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 6,623
Likes: 847
From: Ex-pat Aussie in the UK
We use down to 400 feet obstacle clearance by day, if necessary,
MDA by night,
1000 feet AAL for day time practice, and
1500 feet for a visual circuit.
400' circling maybe once a year or so, 1000/MDA once every month or six weeks, 1500' visual circuit three or four times a month.
MDA by night,
1000 feet AAL for day time practice, and
1500 feet for a visual circuit.
400' circling maybe once a year or so, 1000/MDA once every month or six weeks, 1500' visual circuit three or four times a month.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: World
Circling approaches should be banned by the authorities as inherently unstable and unsafe especially at night. They are not suitable for an airliner whatever about a light aircraft. Most landing accidents recently came from some kind of non-precision approach. Circling apchs are the worst kind of non-precision approach.
