Airbus Flight Controls Check

[Dudule54]

Hi Folks,

After flying Boeings and Embraers I fly now A320s.
I am quite surprised by AIB SOPs regarding a few aspects.
One of those is the flight controls check…
Why is it to happen during taxi ? I mean the main goal in checking flight controls is to make sure you’re seating position is correct so you can have full deflection of all flight controls without having to make uncomfortable body movements and doing this while taxiing is, in my opinion, too late to figure out that you’re not seating properly as changing your seat settings while taxiing is not the best move to do… Plus it makes the PM watching the SD for a long time while moving on congested taxiways on sometimes complex airports where you’d better check what goes on outside…
All the other airplanes I’ve flown had SOPs requiring flight controls to be checked with parking brake ON after the engine start up and before taxiing.
Do you guys have a clear explanation on why is it so ?
Thx

[Amadis of Gaul]

Originally Posted by Dudule54

I mean the main goal in checking flight controls is to make sure you’re seating position is correct so you can have full deflection of all flight controls without having to make uncomfortable body movements

Are you sure that is the MAIN goal? Let me rephrase: why do you suppose are we expected to look at the F/CTL SD page during that check? Any ideas?

[Amadis of Gaul]

Originally Posted by Dudule54

I mean the main goal in checking flight controls is to make sure you’re seating position is correct so you can have full deflection of all flight controls without having to make uncomfortable body movements

Are you sure that is the MAIN goal? Let me rephrase: why do you suppose are we expected to look at the F/CTL SD page during that check? Any ideas?

[Tu.114]

If You decide to do the flight control check before starting to taxi, You are fully covered by Monsieur Airbusses books.

Originally Posted by FCTM-PR-NP-SOP-100-Flight Controls

"At a convenient stage, before or during taxi, and before arming the autobrake, the PF silently applies full longitudional and lateral sidestick deflection. On the F/CTL page, the PM checks and calls out full travel of elevators and ailerons, and correct deflection and retraction of spoilers. (...)"

Originally Posted by OM-B-PRO_NOR-SOP-10-All engine taxi at departure

"Flight controls - Check.

Layer 2: Check the flight controls at a convenient stage, before or during taxi."

If You adjust Your seat in reference to the red/white balls and Your armrest in accordance to Your habitual letter/number, You can expect the setting to be suitable. Also, it is not forbidden to try moving the sidestick before startup/pushback to check/fine tune Your seating position while the aircraft is standing still.

Personally, I do the flight control check during taxi whenever there is a long, clear, obstacle free taxiway on the cleared route. In case of a complicated taxi route, an unfamiliar field, nasty weather or anything else that requires attention during taxi, I do the check before calling in for the taxi clearance.

[PENKO]

Welcome to Airbus. You focus on seating position, but personally speaking that’s not such an issue on the Airbus. A wrong seating position in relation to the side-stick is very awkward and very obvious long before you start to move. The wrong rudder position can be more easily overlooked, but is immediately noticed the moment you start to taxi and fixed with a quick flick of the rudder pedal adjustment. It’s not as cumbersome as on the Boeing.

Also, as a typical Airbus pilot you will be making many micro adjustments of your seat and armrest throughout the day, without the need of further flight control checks.

When done sensibly, the control check during the taxi is no issue whatsoever, just like all the other tasks you do during the taxi. Occasionally I do the checks before taxi (very short taxi times, fog etc), but you really have to be sure that the tow bar/tow truck is disconnected to avoid potential trouble. It’s almost not worth it.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Originally Posted by Dudule54

I mean the main goal in checking flight controls is to make sure you’re seating position is correct so you can have full deflection of all flight controls without having to make uncomfortable body movements

Are you sure that is the MAIN goal? Let me rephrase: why do you suppose are we expected to look at the F/CTL SD page during that check? Any ideas?

[Checkboard]

Boeing used to check controls during taxi as well. They changed SOP about 15 years ago.

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

Originally Posted by PENKO

Welcome to Airbus. You focus on seating position, but personally speaking that’s not such an issue on the Airbus. A wrong seating position in relation to the side-stick is very awkward and very obvious long before you start to move. The wrong rudder position can be more easily overlooked, but is immediately noticed the moment you start to taxi and fixed with a quick flick of the rudder pedal adjustment. It’s not as cumbersome as on the Boeing.

Also, as a typical Airbus pilot you will be making many micro adjustments of your seat and armrest throughout the day, without the need of further flight control checks.

When done sensibly, the control check during the taxi is no issue whatsoever, just like all the other tasks you do during the taxi. Occasionally I do the checks before taxi (very short taxi times, fog etc), but you really have to be sure that the tow bar/tow truck is disconnected to avoid potential trouble. It’s almost not worth it.

the 1500ft nervous seat shuffle!

[Musician]

Originally Posted by Checkboard

Boeing used to check controls during taxi as well. They changed SOP about 15 years ago.

Why did they change it?

[FlyingStone]

Plus it makes the PM watching the SD for a long time while moving on congested taxiways on sometimes complex airports where you’d better check what goes on outside…

Forget about flight control check, some airlines think it's a great idea to be heads down getting loadsheet via ACARS and sorting out FMC with weight and balance and performance when taxiing around the busiest airports on the planet.

[compressor stall]

Originally Posted by Dudule54

I mean the main goal in checking flight controls is to make sure you’re seating position is correct so you can have full deflection of all flight controls without having to make uncomfortable body movements and doing this while taxiing is, in my opinion, too late to figure out that you’re not seating properly as changing your seat settings while taxiing is not the best move to do…

No it's not. Read here.
https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/app/t...rols-check.pdf

As for your armrest theory, the reason there are those letters and numbers on the armrest is so that you sort out what your position should be then set it. You would have sorted it on your TR, and it shouldn't have changed (much).

Originally Posted by Dudule54

Plus it makes the PM watching the SD for a long time while moving on congested taxiways on sometimes complex airports where you’d better check what goes on outside…

Well just use that thing called TEM that you probably gloss over. The good news is that you've already identified the threat, often that's the hard bit. Now step 2 is to manage it. At busy airports where there are no taxiways where the PM can be head down for 5 seconds, do it stationary before taxi.

[pineteam]

Unless you are very new on type, unfamiliar airport or expecting a very short taxi or flying an A380, it’s not very professional nor considerate to do the flight controls check before taxi. First you are not being efficient ( burning more fuel,) and also you are delaying other traffic behind you waiting to taxi or to push back as for example this morning; I had to wait a few minutes for this aircraft to push and start to enter my gate. If they have done the flight controls check it would have been another 30 seconds more. And yes every second matters in aviation.

[hannibal lecter]

It is supposed that the PF is looking up all the time the flight controls are being checked. The PM is heads-away from the taxi more, example starting the second engine. But in the end you you train up to do your stuff and look outside almost at the same time, call it "training your peripheral vision" which was something we trained in the fast jets.

In the end a lot of Airbus drivers cannot be doing it wrong or unsafe.

[compressor stall]

pineteam agree it’s the exception not the rule.

The only time I have needed to do flight control checks standing still before taxi is when we shut down and load / unload on the threshold (in an extremely niche non airline operation).

[Chesty Morgan]

Originally Posted by pineteam

Unless you are very new on type, unfamiliar airport or expecting a very short taxi or flying an A380, it’s not very professional nor considerate to do the flight controls check before taxi. First you are not being efficient ( burning more fuel,) and also you are delaying other traffic behind you waiting to taxi or to push back as for example this morning; I had to wait a few minutes for this aircraft to push and start to enter my gate. If they have done the flight controls check it would have been another 30 seconds more. And yes every second matters in aviation.

So does patience

[PENKO]

So what else is bugging you on the Airbus, threadstarter? Having started my professional career on a Boeing, I’ll never come fully to grips with Airbus’ interpretation of VNAV (DES), but it is what it is

[pineteam]

Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan

So does patience

So does common sense.

[172_driver]

So what else is bugging you on the Airbus, threadstarter?

Not the thread starter, but allow me

Lack of cup holders, 1 instead of Boeing's 2

[pineteam]

Originally Posted by 172_driver

Not the thread starter, but allow me

Lack of cup holders, 1 instead of Boeing's 2

For me the worst are the noisy avionics fans on ground.

[172_driver]

Yeah the noise! Biggest myth in aviation history - the A320 is so quiet, especially the Neo

Another candidate is the choice of color on the EFIS and the display units, especially the old ones. " ...Autothrust BLUE" ... anyone?

[Amadis of Gaul]

Originally Posted by 172_driver

Not the thread starter, but allow me

Lack of cup holders, 1 instead of Boeing's 2

Never mind that, they took away phone holders on the NEOs!

[Someone Somewhere]

Originally Posted by pineteam

Unless you are very new on type, unfamiliar airport or expecting a very short taxi or flying an A380, it’s not very professional nor considerate to do the flight controls check before taxi.

Curious why that is a consideration.

Only type where you run out of fingers when counting the control surfaces on each wing?