Airbus Flight Controls Check

[pineteam]

By A380 SOP, it’s required to do the flight controls check before taxi. I’m guessing since they have close to 80 meters wingspan? Not sure but that’s what I saw on Airbus WIN.

[Musician]

Originally Posted by pineteam

By A380 SOP, it’s required to do the flight controls check before taxi. I’m guessing since they have close to 80 meters wingspan? Not sure but that’s what I saw on Airbus WIN.

How much authority do A380 control surfaces have at a brisk taxi (or a brisk head wind) at full travel?

[PENKO]

Originally Posted by 172_driver

Yeah the noise! Biggest myth in aviation history - the A320 is so quiet, especially the Neo

I’ve noticed a humming sound on the NEO which is absent on the other versions, but I have not yet really noticed that it’s noisier.

Have you ever been inside the flight deck of an NG at cruise speed? I’ll take any Airbus over that, any time, even without noise canceling

[student88]

The biggest threat to the A380 operation is ground collision during taxi hence why the flight control check is done with the parking brake set.

[172_driver]

Have you ever been inside the flight deck of an NG at cruise speed? I’ll take any Airbus over that, any time, even without noise canceling

Yes, for 12 years and the Bose headset was my best friend! The A320 is better, but far from comfortable, as you're reminded of each time you turn off the power. Anyway, sorry for the thread drift...

[Uplinker]

Originally Posted by Dudule54

...........I mean the main goal in checking flight controls is to make sure you’re seating position is correct so you can have full deflection of all flight controls without having to make uncomfortable body movements and doing this while taxiing is, in my opinion, too late to figure out that you’re not seating properly as changing your seat settings while taxiing is not the best move to do… Plus it makes the PM watching the SD for a long time while moving on congested taxiways on sometimes complex airports where you’d better check what goes on outside…
All the other airplanes I’ve flown had SOPs requiring flight controls to be checked with parking brake ON after the engine start up and before taxiing.
Do you guys have a clear explanation on why is it so ?
Thx

Negative, Ghostrider. The controls check is primarily to ensure that the correct flight control surfaces move in the correct directions following control inputs - AND that they move to their fullest extent. Your seating position should have been worked out and your numbers memorised during your SIM training. Both pilots perform the controls check separately so that both side-sticks are independently checked before take-off.

The check can only be done after all hydraulic services are on line - i.e. after all the engines are running, but doing the check after pushback either holds up other ramp traffic or cannot be done because not all engines might be running at this point. Therefore this is normally done during a quiet, straight taxi segment.

Most busy airports - even New York, Paris and Rome have a suitable taxi segment. If not, the control check can be done at the runway holding point, before calling 'ready'.

The most important thing is to check correct movement of the flight controls, according to the inputs. Our SOP used to be always the same sequence: "full up, full down, full left, full right, rudders: full left, full right." But pilots pointed out that this invalidated the test because the person checking the SD would just say the next words on the script, even if that was not what they saw.

Our SOP was then changed to be in any order but one plane at a time. Most pilots continued to use the original sequence, but I didn't. On more than one occasion, the PM would say "full left" when I was holding full right for example. I would hold my side-stick where it was and ask "are you sure ?", at which they would look again and then get the correct answer. This proved our concerns about the dangers of always following the same sequence.
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[AerocatS2A]

Our SOP was then changed to be in any order but one plane at a time. Most pilots continued to use the original sequence, but I didn't. On more than one occasion, the PM would say "full left" when I was holding full right for example. I would hold my side-stick where it was and ask "are you sure ?", at which they would look again and then get the correct answer. This proved our concerns about the dangers of always following the same sequence.

This exposes a more fundamental issue of someone saying the words without doing the check and can easily happen with all checks. Randomising the control check helps in that particular case but that same person will make the same mistake in other contexts because they've got poor procedural discipline.

[Escape Path]

I have to confess I was in a mixture of bemusement and amusement when I read that the "main goal in checking the flight controls is to make sure you're (sic) seating position is correct...".

Now, forgive me, but I'd always thought the main reason in checking the flight controls was to verify the correct operation of said flight controls!

I just want to add up to what others have correctly pointed out about the goal of the flight controls check. First, not only your seating position should have been more or less dialed in during TR training, but the SOP section, specifically PRO-NOR-SOP-07 "Before Pushback Or Start", also states to check your seating position, along with "seats, seatbelts, shoulder harnesses, pedals and armrests". So there you go, that's the proper time to do so. Not at flight controls check. And yes, I do set my seat and armrest at that particular time, though minor adjustments may be necessary depending (usually) on the age of the particular airplane and/or how hard previous colleagues have treated their machinery, which in any case, isn't a major distraction from flying duties.

Regarding the PM being too "heads-down" during the check: it takes about 20 to 30 seconds for both flight crew members to check the controls. The FCTM points out that the check should be done "at a convenient stage, before or during the taxi", and I'm yet to read an accident/incident report, or a recommendation of any kind, via Airbus or any of the operators I've flown for, where this is identified as a less than adequate way to perform this check. Just be sure to do so in a time and place that you know you will not get a particularly high workload for the aforementioned 20-30 secs and you should be fine. If you do run into high workload, you can always interrupt said check, take care of whatever has arisen and repeat your check from scratch once you're done. You know, basic airmanship concepts.

P.S.: I'd have the time of my life messing with the fellow aviator next to me to try and get them out of "automatic mode" having the "freedom" to do the flight control check in whatever axis I choose. Nice gotcha and giggles to be had there.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Originally Posted by Escape Path

Now, forgive me, but I'd always thought the main reason in checking the flight controls was to verify the correct operation of said flight controls!

I was under that impression as well.

[Chesty Morgan]

How do you get full deflection unless your seat and/or pedals are in the right position though? 🤔

[Fursty Ferret]

P.S.: I'd have the time of my life messing with the fellow aviator next to me to try and get them out of "automatic mode" having the "freedom" to do the flight control check in whatever axis I choose. Nice gotcha and giggles to be had there

Thing is, the order and the call-outs are written down in the FCOM. Which other SOPs do you vary for giggles?
As Airbus point out themselves the flight control check is not just waggling the sidestick. I'm following through on the F/CTL page and if I see the wrong direction my first thought is not "oh, the other pilot is keeping me awake", it's "WTF?". That distracts me.

[Uplinker]

As I proved for real, several times, having a prescribed sequence with a script to follow, can invalidate the check. As I saw for myself; it can become PM seeing some movement on the SD and saying the next line of the script, rather than actually looking properly and stating which surfaces are moving. If a check throws up an error, I would most definitely want to be "distracted" by it - and then find out what or who was wrong !

There are 5 fly-by-wire computers between each side-stick and the flight control surfaces, and three hydraulic systems, so it is very important to check properly * that they are all agreeing and behaving correctly before take-off. Engineering work might have been performed overnight or even during the turnaround, so the controls check is absolutely vital, and it is absolutely vital that controls are actually checked rather than just going through a script.

Our company changed that particular SOP - not for giggles, nor to catch anyone out - but to ensure a valid check rather than just words in a script.

Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan

How do you get full deflection unless your seat and/or pedals are in the right position though? 🤔

When preparing for engine start and push-back, both pilots will move their seats to the correct position using the red and white sighting balls **, and the rudder pedals are moved to the number on the scale that they know is correct for them - having been determined during their initial type rating in the SIM, and confirmed on the first day of line training. (The side-stick arm rest will likewise already have been moved and set by the numbers on those two scales, ditto).



* As a passenger, I sometimes see only a very brief stab on the ailerons/spoilers rather than them moving to and holding full deflection. Once airborne, we cannot pull over into a lay-by and get out to check a problem, so best make sure that all is good before taking off.

** Many pilots reach out and touch their PFD to set a rough seat position and then double check by looking at the sighting balls.
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[FullWings]

I do a fair amount of gliding and it is customary to have an independent check of the controls when strapped in before you set off. Some years ago at my club we changed the challenges, e.g. ‘Left rudder?’ became ‘Rudder?’ to ensure that the checker had to look at said control surface and respond with its actual position rather than what you just said. This kind of thing applies very much in commercial aviation too and checklists if performed regularly can end up as mouth music, especially if they are done at busy times alongside other tasks and the responses are 99.9% of the time the same as the the last occasion. I dislike the response ‘checked’ as it has little information content to trap errors and leaves the challenger wondering if/when/what was checked or not.

Some people in management think that to improve safety means adding more and more procedures and checklists to cover their backsides in the event of an incident but often this has the reverse effect and they end up as a distraction to the basic operation. What do you need to get into the air? An aeroplane, a runway, some thrust and some high-lift devices if your steed requires them. Anything else is icing on the cake but things seem to inevitably get increasingly more complicated over time which is not necessarily beneficial overall. How many notable ground collisions have we had this year already? Far too many...

[ulys]

If you ever ask yourself what the main reason for this check is, read this: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147094

[javelin]

Oo 'Eck - good interception and recovery.

Bit like the Embryo out of maintenance with reverse controls - that was even better !

[PENKO]

Originally Posted by Fursty Ferret

Thing is, the order and the call-outs are written down in the FCOM. Which other SOPs do you vary for giggles?
As Airbus point out themselves the flight control check is not just waggling the sidestick. I'm following through on the F/CTL page and if I see the wrong direction my first thought is not "oh, the other pilot is keeping me awake", it's "WTF?". That distracts me.

To my knowledge Airbus does not say ‘do it in this order’. They just give an indication on how to act and verbalize the flight control check. I.e. the procedure does not tell the PF in which way to move the controls, it merely states ‘PF silently applies full longitudinal and lateral side-stick deflection’. Then it instructs PM what to say when they see the correct deflection.

Tellingly, the instruction to the PM on how to do the check is almost identical to PF: no mention of specific order, just move the controls longitudinally and laterally.

If you read the manuals too literally it will make for an interesting day out flying!

[Escape Path]

Originally Posted by Fursty Ferret

Thing is, the order and the call-outs are written down in the FCOM. Which other SOPs do you vary for giggles?

I don't vary SOP for giggles. It would seem you failed to read the rest of my post, where I mention that I actually do adjust my seat before pushback, as mentioned in the SOP.

Read Uplinker post right below yours to see that his company changed the manuals so pilots can do the flight controls check in whatever sequence they decide, to enhance the validity of the check (to get a proper response, instead of an automated one).

If you read the manuals too literally it will make for an interesting day out flying!

Couldn't agree more.

[Barani.Dharan]

Hello,

The Flight Controls Check on the A320/319/321 variants can be carried out at a convenient time as per the SOP — either while taxiing or after engine start. The main purpose of this check is to ensure that the ELACs and SECs are functioning correctly, the sidestick is electrically connected, and that pilot control comfort is satisfactory.According to Airbus procedures, if the check is performed while taxiing, it should be done while taxiing in a straight line, with one pilot always looking outside and the other performing the check.

Based on my experience, once at VOHS (Hyderabad, India), after completing the Flight Controls Check, an ELAC 1 Fault was displayed. The same fault reappeared when the check was repeated.

Performing the Flight Controls Check is an important part of ensuring the aircraft’s airworthiness before flight.

[Uplinker]

Yes it is. The controls check is not an annoying "paperwork" thing that has to be got out of the way as quickly as possible before take-off, it is a vital and absolutely essential check.

We absolutely MUST know that all the computers, hydraulics, flight control surfaces, feed-backs and SD page are moving correctly and in the correct sense before taking to the air.

Some pilots like to say, (or think): "it flew in, it will fly out....." NO ! Not necessarily. It's not mechanical anymore. The 5 computers and the three hydraulic systems will all have been off-line during the engine shut-down on the stand, and there will have been up to 6 changes of electrical power source from taxying in to taking off.

So it is extremely important to perform the control check diligently to ensure that all those many components and systems have come back on line correctly after engine start and all those power source changes.

Let's be careful out there.

[Brutus53]

Originally Posted by Checkboard

Boeing used to check controls during taxi as well. They changed SOP about 15 years ago.

So did we, for Boeings and Airbusses alike.

This is often part of the FCOM (SOPs) that customer airlines modify according to their priorities.

Airbus seams to leave it to the operator by stating
FLIGHT CONTROLS.................................................... .....................................CHECK PF-PM
Check the flight controls at a convenient stage, before or during taxi.

From the January 2005 Airbus Safety First magazine: ‘The importance of the pre-flight flight controls check’ : https://mms-safetyfirst.s3.eu-west-3...rols-check.pdf

My lot decided it was more important to concentrate on F/CTL checks and not get distracted by taxiing (or v.v), so we do it before taxi - a decision that was largely driven by our Flight Safety department

Another lot with tight schedules might decide that on time performance is more important and accordingly do it during taxi.

It also depends on the airports you operate from, some require full attention and I’d rather not muck around with F/CTL checks and miss a turn, a taxi instruction, or get into someone’s way.
One some of the quieter airports you might get away with it.

Regarding the time that it takes, we often complete the F/CTL checks before the tug has moved clear and mechanic turns around to show us the pin.
If someone behind us might get upset about us doing the F/CTL checks before taxi, so be it… 🤷‍♂️
’If it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing right.’



B.