“Stirring the pudding” control inputs on landing a FBW Boeing

[RichardJones]

Like this?
let us have a change and witness a "master/mistress at work".
The aircraft flies itself, so doesn't really need much encouragement. The A/C is placed where it is required and it stays there.
Has this operator made it look easy, or hard?
If there is any need to fly accurately, it is in that proffession.
To me, that's pretty to watch. Oh and no P.I.O., that I can see.
Tell ya something else.. That person would be able to land that thing, if needed to on a ferry flight for example, in the 3 point attitude, in max crosswind. No drift.
Not suggesting for one minute he/she would be applicating in a strong wind, of course.

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[PPRuNeUser485134]

Not sure if this has been posted
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPIjY...IxNTI5Zmc4aQ==

full sidestick deflections is madness unless they are in hurricane conditions. Even worse this is from the left hand seat

[172510]

I use the PITCH mode a lot.
In the small aircraft I use it to demonstrate to my students that keeping pitch steady works well. In the Citation( ok, still a small aircraft), at the end of the climb, in FLC mode, oscillation in pitch tend to occur. Fellow pilots, even seasoned captains, explain that to prevent the oscillation VS mode is required. Pitch mode works better, the ROC and Speed decrease steadily until reaching the TOC, no loss of energy. Just as when you are lucky enough to fly a glider.
Stirring the pudding translates in French as faire de la mayonnaise.
I'm interested in knowing how you call it in other European languages.

[CharlieMike]

Originally Posted by KSINGH

Not sure if this has been posted
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPIjY...IxNTI5Zmc4aQ==

full sidestick deflections is madness unless they are in hurricane conditions. Even worse this is from the left hand seat

Having been Boeing (707 and 777), done a couple of years on Airbus then back to Boeing (787), I suspect this guy should have had better instruction on day 1 of his Airbus course. First sim should enable the student to set his armrest properly so that the whole forearm is anchored and its only really the wrist that moves. Rather than fight the whole thing down the approach, he should be gently nudging the aircraft when the flightpath requires it.

Having flown both manufacturers, I do prefer Boeing. I found Airbus stick too easy to overcontrol in pitch on an EFATO. Also in gusty crosswinds, you sometimes did need to hit the stops on the stick to maintain the flightpath which was always a bit disconcerting. Being a demand input to the computer, I always thought of it more as a very manual autopilot controller rather than a direct control device. I also hated Airbus philosophy of messing around with the control laws between types. If your airline operates A320CEO, NEO and A321NEO, you've got three variations in how they respond near the ground.

[Check Airman]

Originally Posted by KSINGH

Not sure if this has been posted
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPIjY...IxNTI5Zmc4aQ==

full sidestick deflections is madness unless they are in hurricane conditions. Even worse this is from the left hand seat

I ASSUME this was a simulator, which would make it ok… we’ve all got to start somewhere.

[RichardJones]

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Never seen anything quiet like this, ever.
What are they teaching these kids today?
Not their fault. Obviously haven't been taught any different.
Or more too the point, why are they not teaching them?
This is what they should be teaching them.

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[Ver5pen]

Just saw this on insta
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DTK3F...dqMDkyemZ4Zw==

Wind is 30 degrees off RW heading, I have to wonder if these influencers online are making a trend whereby people think PIO makes you look like you are working harder hence more skilled. The plane is barely reacting to his inputs, it’s quite an embarrassing display of ‘airmanship’

[Propellerhead]

It’s one thing to do that on a 737. But on an airbus FBW with a side stick?! 😳
I’ve only flown the airbus a couple of times in the sim. Took me about 10mins to realise that smaller control inputs are better and that it’s very sensitive in roll. I was PIO in roll to start with but then just let go, and then learnt to make small inputs. How the hell did he get through training doing that?!

[hans brinker]

Originally Posted by Propellerhead

It’s one thing to do that on a 737. But on an airbus FBW with a side stick?! 😳
I’ve only flown the airbus a couple of times in the sim. Took me about 10mins to realise that smaller control inputs are better and that it’s very sensitive in roll. I was PIO in roll to start with but then just let go, and then learnt to make small inputs. How the hell did he get through training doing that?!

Yup. Was on the bus over a decade. Most new to FBW guys would be all over the place on their first departure with a bit of gusts/turbulence. I would suggest letting go of the stick for a few seconds. The look of amazement was always worth it.

[Blaze1]

Originally Posted by jimtx

Agree smooth is best in the T-38 including in the flare but occasionally I found myself sampling the elevator response with some stick pulses in the flare. I remember some article about it in a technical aviation journal explaining it. Above my head.

Yep reading the comments in this thread made me think of perhaps the same article you read. I think it was called Code One and the articles were about the F-16 by one of its Test Pilots Joe Bill Dryden. I think they were part of the Semper Viper series.

BTW,, love the terms 'Stirring the pudding' and 'Mixing the mayo'
I hope they stick.

[cLeArIcE]

It's always the ex 737 peeps that do this. To be fair, my very limited experience on the 737 compared to Boeing widebodies and the A320 did make me realise that the 737 flies like a shopping trolley.
But, it Does my head in when someone does it on the Airbus. It's so noticeable and It's awful down the back.

[BraceBrace]

Originally Posted by cLeArIcE

It's always the ex 737 peeps that do this.

The mental idea that "anything that is not correct is a danger" is a human characteristic that ends up in overcorrecting. It's a common misconception the 737 is the cause here, the 737 is only the perfect playground for people with this personality as they are not really causing any harm (besides discomfort for the rest on board). These people will do the same thing on a 777, an A320,... The worst was a military C130 driver, whom I debriefed that a 3km paved runway is not a 1000ft dirt strip :-).

It's all about the mindset.

[Bergerie1]

It was the same on 707s - see my post No. 4

[RichardJones]

The are pilots and there are pilots.

No stirring there. You don't learn that in a classroom.

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