Airlines with a policy that allows pilots to refuel by themselves?
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From: Korea
Airlines with a policy that allows pilots to refuel by themselves?
Hi
I'd like to know any airline that has a policy which allow the pilot to control the Re-Fuel Panel to get the aircraft fueled up when there is no maintenance guy on site and/or re-fueling personnel is unfamiliar with a particular aircraft.
I'm asking because my company wants to revise the company's manual in such a way the captain can officially control the Re-fuel panel when it's really needed in case of diverting to a new airport where there is the non-contracted fuel servicing (which usually does Fuel pipe connection only) and no maintenance personnel is onboard.
If anybody know any airline that I am looking for, please let me know. Many thanks in advance.
I'd like to know any airline that has a policy which allow the pilot to control the Re-Fuel Panel to get the aircraft fueled up when there is no maintenance guy on site and/or re-fueling personnel is unfamiliar with a particular aircraft.
I'm asking because my company wants to revise the company's manual in such a way the captain can officially control the Re-fuel panel when it's really needed in case of diverting to a new airport where there is the non-contracted fuel servicing (which usually does Fuel pipe connection only) and no maintenance personnel is onboard.
If anybody know any airline that I am looking for, please let me know. Many thanks in advance.
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: UK
From my own experience it's aircraft size dependent. Anything bigger than an A321 or a B757 usually either the refueller has full responsibility or the ground engineer/mechanic.
There are anomalies. AA air crew tend to look after their own refueling on a regular basis even with their bigger aircraft such as the 787.
There are anomalies. AA air crew tend to look after their own refueling on a regular basis even with their bigger aircraft such as the 787.
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: I wouldn't know.
The easiest way would be to opt for the flight deck refueling panel (option for Airbus). Set it up and the bowser just needs to connect and go. On the A320 comes with fueling ports on both wings.
the only time i had to take an engineer along was when the MEL required a drip stick check each time, apart from that any pilot should be competent enough to handle it themselves. Even though the refueller is perfectly able to, just depends on the booked and paid for service level.
the only time i had to take an engineer along was when the MEL required a drip stick check each time, apart from that any pilot should be competent enough to handle it themselves. Even though the refueller is perfectly able to, just depends on the booked and paid for service level.
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From: USA
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Location, Location
From my own experience it's aircraft size dependent. Anything bigger than an A321 or a B757 usually either the refueller has full responsibility or the ground engineer/mechanic.
There are anomalies. AA air crew tend to look after their own refueling on a regular basis even with their bigger aircraft such as the 787.
There are anomalies. AA air crew tend to look after their own refueling on a regular basis even with their bigger aircraft such as the 787.
Last edited by Mr Good Cat; 26th February 2024 at 17:27.
Joined: Apr 2010
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From: IRS NAV ONLY
Even on the basic 737 without the fuel preselect, we're really talking about 3 ON-OFF switches, one for each fuel tank. Figure out how much you need in each tank, open the required valves, close each valve 20-30kg below the desired tank quantity.
Hardly a difficult task compared to what is required to actually fly the airplane.
Hardly a difficult task compared to what is required to actually fly the airplane.
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: UK
Even on the basic 737 without the fuel preselect, we're really talking about 3 ON-OFF switches, one for each fuel tank. Figure out how much you need in each tank, open the required valves, close each valve 20-30kg below the desired tank quantity.
Hardly a difficult task compared to what is required to actually fly the airplane.
Hardly a difficult task compared to what is required to actually fly the airplane.
It can be time consuming, especially on older aircraft. Pilots tend to be quite busy doing preflight tasks, drinking coffee, not getting wet.... 😁
Joined: Oct 2010
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From: 5° above the Equator, 75° left of Greenwich
Being on my third operator while flying the A320, there hasn't been a restriction or prohibition in the different OMs to refuel the aircraft. In fact, there have been provisos allowing the pilots to refuel if having to divert to an alternate without any company support. The reason I mention the A320 is because there is a "Refueling" supplementary procedure in the FCOM, and well... we do all the other supplementary procedures in there when needed. I even took my iPad last time I did it (I've only done it a couple of times, and SUP procedures are meant to be done in a "read and do" fashion, according to the FCTM 
). Also, at one particular operator, I recall having CBT lessons about the refuel panel and its operation. This same operator also instructed us how to refuel the Dash 8.
Regarding the time taken to do it: since this wasn't an assigned routine responsibility, well... the couple of times I've had to do it we did depart late, and it was quickly reported that the reason we were late was because there wasn't anyone to refuel us so we had to do it ourselves. And we can only do so many things at once! Never heard back from those situations...
). Also, at one particular operator, I recall having CBT lessons about the refuel panel and its operation. This same operator also instructed us how to refuel the Dash 8.Regarding the time taken to do it: since this wasn't an assigned routine responsibility, well... the couple of times I've had to do it we did depart late, and it was quickly reported that the reason we were late was because there wasn't anyone to refuel us so we had to do it ourselves. And we can only do so many things at once! Never heard back from those situations...
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: ???
This thread brings back memories of when we had to do our own refuelling at some ports in africa. On one particular day I had asked for my crew meal to be warmed up while I went out, refuelled and did a walk around. While refuelling you pretty much had to stand at the panel, which was directly under the wing refuelling port, and manipulate the individual tank refuelling valves. Little did I know that the nozzle from the bowser had a pressure relief valve which would squirt jet A1 out whenever a refuelling valve was closed. I simultaneously closed the valve for one of the tanks and yawned with my mouth directly in line with the pressure relief valve. It was bad. Mouth full of fuel, shirt and tie soaked. Needless to say, I did not enjoy the crew meal afterwards 🤦♂️
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From: Blue sky
I'm asking because my company wants to revise the company's manual in such a way the captain can officially control the Re-fuel panel when it's really needed in case of diverting to a new airport where there is the non-contracted fuel servicing (which usually does Fuel pipe connection only) and no maintenance personnel is onboard.
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Wherever I go, there I am
I'd like to know any airline that has a policy which allow the pilot to control the Re-Fuel Panel to get the aircraft fueled up when there is no maintenance guy on site and/or re-fueling personnel is unfamiliar with a particular aircraft.
Joined: May 2011
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From: Surrey UK
Been a few years now, but pressure refueling etiquette is to give the tanker or rig driver your calculated uplift, in volume litre/gallons which would need a conversion chart from Kg/lb against his relative density; you need to climb aboard most hydraulic lift rigs with the driver whom might have his hoses to connect, not likely you would mess with them, they have shear necks and other features; the trick is not to shut off all the aircraft fueling valves at once or even the the last one as this causes a back pressure to the Refueler, but signal to him to slow down or cut his pressure.
A colleague of mine transiting a large Indian East coast airport climbed the loaned steps, to set the wide body refuel panel only to find himself on the concrete with a broken leg.
Climbing equipment has a peril a pilot should avoid.
A colleague of mine transiting a large Indian East coast airport climbed the loaned steps, to set the wide body refuel panel only to find himself on the concrete with a broken leg.
Climbing equipment has a peril a pilot should avoid.
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Seat 1A
I'm asking because my company wants to revise the company's manual in such a way the captain can officially control the Re-fuel panel when it's really needed in case of diverting to a new airport where there is the non-contracted fuel servicing (which usually does Fuel pipe connection only) and no maintenance personnel is onboard.
Captain Shirley asks "surely you can't be serious?!".
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: at the edge of the alps
I frequently set the panel myself and occasionally switched the valves open on several turboprops and a jet. On the current plane it‘s too high to use without ladder and I may have set it once or twice if a refueller was unsure about the procedure. No rules against it here.
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: USA
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Planet Earth
Been a few years now, but pressure refueling etiquette is to give the tanker or rig driver your calculated uplift, in volume litre/gallons which would need a conversion chart from Kg/lb against his relative density; you need to climb aboard most hydraulic lift rigs with the driver whom might have his hoses to connect, not likely you would mess with them, they have shear necks and other features; the trick is not to shut off all the aircraft fueling valves at once or even the the last one as this causes a back pressure to the Refueler, but signal to him to slow down or cut his pressure.
A colleague of mine transiting a large Indian East coast airport climbed the loaned steps, to set the wide body refuel panel only to find himself on the concrete with a broken leg.
Climbing equipment has a peril a pilot should avoid.
A colleague of mine transiting a large Indian East coast airport climbed the loaned steps, to set the wide body refuel panel only to find himself on the concrete with a broken leg.
Climbing equipment has a peril a pilot should avoid.
Thats the same logic I used to stop hanging outside the cockpit to clean the windows