Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Tech Log
Reload this Page >

A320 Why LDG FLAP 3 Off for parking checklist?

Tech Log The very best in practical technical discussion on the web

A320 Why LDG FLAP 3 Off for parking checklist?

Old 18th Aug 2023, 12:44
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2023
Location: Surrey
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A320 Why LDG FLAP 3 Off for parking checklist?

So did a A320 SIM session the other day with an instructor. He made me do this several times as part of parking checklist and I cannot find out why or this item appearing on any other SOP checklists..

​​​​​Left hand overhead panel, under GPWS switches , always set LDG FLAP 3 Off! Why ? Makes little sense to me ? Spurious warnings ? Parking ?

Any ideas ?
Dmxxx is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2023, 19:47
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The normal landing config is full.
Check Airman is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2023, 20:41
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: England
Posts: 435
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If its not in the checklist, ask why the selection. Used for F3 landings but never seen it selected on the ground in 19 years on the Bus.
Capt Scribble is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2023, 21:12
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Miami
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
never seen this
321XLR is online now  
Old 18th Aug 2023, 22:27
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,450
Received 73 Likes on 40 Posts
So it doesn't get forgotten and cause a problem on the next landing, which might be a full flap landing?

I cannot remember if there is any specific annotation on the ECAM Memo when the switch is pressed?
Uplinker is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2023, 00:34
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tropics
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Turning the LDG FLAP 3 switch off is not part of the after landing and parking flow neither is it in the respective checklists.

The next set of crew is supposed to check all white lights off as per FCOM SOP Cockpit Preparation. That’s where we turn it off.
dream747 is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2023, 00:35
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: In my own little world
Posts: 1,471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You'll have to turn it off during the next prep scan as it is a white light and we turn those off. May as well do it after shutting down even if it is just to keep him happy.
lurkio is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2023, 07:28
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Having a margarita on the beach
Posts: 2,395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dmxxx
So did a A320 SIM session the other day with an instructor. He made me do this several times as part of parking checklist and I cannot find out why or this item appearing on any other SOP checklists..

​​​​​Left hand overhead panel, under GPWS switches , always set LDG FLAP 3 Off! Why ? Makes little sense to me ? Spurious warnings ? Parking ?

Any ideas ?
Hi,

the GPWS LDG FLAP 3 used to be put back to OFF (light out) position in the after landing scan flow. Actually throughout the years this changed a couple of times from parking flow to after landing flow. Airbus removed this action in the after landing in one of the latest revisions of the FCOM to continue the standardisation across different types; the bigger brothers do not have this switch when Landing Flaps 3 and the selection on the FMGEC is good enough.
You will most likely see pilots that have been flying the A320 for some time still doing it as they might be unaware of the changes.
sonicbum is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2023, 08:07
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I suppose my question is, why wouldn’t you deselect it?

Leaving that switch selected would be a bit like deselecting the engine generators after shutdown…
Check Airman is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2023, 10:18
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Having a margarita on the beach
Posts: 2,395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Check Airman
I suppose my question is, why wouldn’t you deselect it?

Leaving that switch selected would be a bit like deselecting the engine generators after shutdown…
To be honest I believe everyone still deselects it, including myself, but that’s just to be aware of the changes going on.

It’s a bit like doing the Preliminary takeoff performance computation during the preliminary cockpit preparation. It’s SOP to do it on an A319 with 30 pax out of a 4500m runway as it is on a fully loaded A350 😄

Procedure harmonization across different types/variants does help a lot indeed, especially when flying MFF, the down sides are that some flows coming from the biggies are relatively less important on the narrow body family.
sonicbum is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2023, 12:50
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: big green wheely bin
Posts: 877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If you leave it switched on you are no longer complying with the Airbus “dark cockpit” philosophy.
Jonty is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2023, 17:37
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jonty
If you leave it switched on you are no longer complying with the Airbus “dark cockpit” philosophy.
Yet another reason not to do F3 landings…it violates the dark cockpit philosophy 🙂
Check Airman is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2023, 19:18
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: big green wheely bin
Posts: 877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Check Airman
Yet another reason not to do F3 landings…it violates the dark cockpit philosophy 🙂
best excuse I’ve heard yet!
Jonty is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2023, 19:39
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
There are 2 basic philosophies for how to leave an aircraft:
  1. Secure every item that needs to be secured for shutdown and walk away.
  2. Prepare the aircraft for the next flight as much as possible while still doing the above, then walk away.
It would seem that your instructor falls under Philosophy 2. Its proponents reason that this will help the next crew in their cockpit preparation but more importantly will prevent them from making the mistake of using a setting from the previous flight for their flight. Airbus has slowly been removing these sorts of items from the SOP recently and seems to be favoring Philosophy 1, leaving the flight deck preparation to the pilots preparing the flight deck.

I flew at one company where standard practice was to set to 0 all heading bugs, course selectors, altitude alerters, bugs, everything. Even the navcoms were set to 108.00/118.00. This was absent from the SOP but was viewed as a critical flight safety step and airmanship basic so when I skipped it and left everything as is there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. 3 months later about half were doing it my way and the other half were distraught. A few weeks later after the company suffered its third "voluntary" shutdown in as many years for safety problems (Duty day violations, incomplete training, maintenance errors) the owners threw in the towel and folded the company.

I would ask the instructor for their reasons but if they cannot articulate one, I would just do it their way. You'll probably get better instruction out of them by following their directions in cases like this where it doesn't matter.
ahramin is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2023, 22:17
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Miami
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
what does your current FCOM say in this section?


OVERHEAD PANEL
Ident.: PRO-NOR-SOP-06-A-00011155.0001001 /
Applicable to: ALL

WHITE LIGHTS ON THE OVERHEAD PANEL
 During the scan sequence of the overhead panel:
* ALL WHITE LIGHTS...................................................... .................................... EXTINGUISH
It is a general rule to turn off all the white lights during the scan sequence; therefore, these
actions are not listed here
you instructor is probably just getting the plane set up for the next crew
321XLR is online now  
Old 19th Aug 2023, 23:35
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: London
Posts: 81
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dmxxx
So did a A320 SIM session the other day with an instructor. He made me do this several times as part of parking checklist and I cannot find out why or this item appearing on any other SOP checklists..

​​​​​Left hand overhead panel, under GPWS switches , always set LDG FLAP 3 Off! Why ? Makes little sense to me ? Spurious warnings ? Parking ?

Any ideas ?
When it comes to reading and understanding the question, the majority of replies in this thread worries me.

The question is, why do we select LDG FLAP 3 off after landing/on parking? OFF is the key word here. Remember the push button is ON.

The answer is simple. Dark cockpit philosophy and simplifying the preflight for the next crew/turnaround.
A320 Glider is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2023, 04:47
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wanderlust
Posts: 3,393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Follow manufacture's or company SOPs. So that everyone expects to do same.
vilas is online now  
Old 20th Aug 2023, 09:18
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Having a margarita on the beach
Posts: 2,395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As above, follow Your SOPs and don't think about the next crew or whatever aside from leaving the aircraft clean and tidy. Something You estimate to be advantageous for the next crew may not be the case. Think about legality always. There are actions that YOU are supposed to do and in case on an investigation for whatever reason it could come out that this was done by someone else and/or You have omitted something. Remember incidents/accidents are a chain of very small events.
sonicbum is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2023, 13:59
  #19 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2023
Location: Surrey
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Many thanks. Clearly some variance is SOP

Thanks for all helpful suggestions so far.
it does appear that some have never heard of this item ,some say it used to be a checklist item and others advising 'just do what they want '. I will, of course follow the latter.

Upon further reflection. We weren't event doing any FLAP3 landings.! We were doing Config FULL approaches. I wonder if, for challenging approaches (Innsbruck is an example ), this could be related. Maybe he wanted to avoid spurious GPWS alerts in the FLAP 3 config ? (I.e. just before FULL). Not sure, just thinking aloud.
Dmxxx is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2023, 23:05
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You were doing full flap landings with the push button selected on?
Check Airman is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.