Passenger Boarding with Engine Running
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Passenger Boarding with Engine Running
Hi,
I am looking for some document or bulletin on passenger embarkation / disembarkation with one engine running (jet engines). Thank you.
I am looking for some document or bulletin on passenger embarkation / disembarkation with one engine running (jet engines). Thank you.
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Maybe not exactly what you are looking for but somehow related.
"Refuelling with One Engine Running" is the name of a supplementary procedure that I have found in the QRH of an operator using 737.
Hope it helps.
General
Refueling with one engine running is permitted only on such airports where no ground start equipment is available and the inoperative APU cannot be repaired with existing facilities.
A detailed briefing is required with cabin crew by the commander.
Procedure
The following procedure shall be applied:
• The airplane shall be positioned into the wind.
• Passengers must be disembarked.
• The airport fire department must be alerted to standby at the airplane during the entire refuelling procedure.
• A fueling pressure of 30 psi at the fueling receptacle should not be exceeded.
• Filling of the fuel tanks shall be discontinued before automatic top-off is engaged, to ensure that no fuel can spill out of the vent outlets.
The following figures represent approximate amounts of usable fuels:
* Usable fuel at level attitude, fuel density=0.8029 kilograms per liter
Note: Fuel density must be between 0.7549 to 0.8507 kg/liter for B 737-800.
• Fuel hoses should be laid out using the shortest route, however as remote as possible from the running engine.
• Refueling operation should only be commenced after having ensured that the permanent control of the emergency fuel shutoff device during the entire fueling
operation is performed by the fueling company.
• Engines may not be started or shut down and no attempt to start the inoperative APU should be made before the fueling operation is terminated and all fuelling
equipment has been disconnected and the fuel truck has been removed to a safe distance from the airplane.
• During the entire fueling operation one crew member has to be present in the cockpit monitoring the fueling gages and one person has to be present at the fuelling station to operate the fueling valve switches manually.
• Fueling shall be performed in the following sequence:
1. Engine No.2 running for convenience of disembarkation of passengers.
2. Start engine No.1 by cross start and shut down engine No.2
3. Refuel with engine No.1 running
4. After refueling operation has been completed disconnect hose from fueling station and position fuel truck or dispenser in safe distance from the airplane.
5. Start engine No.2 by cross-start and shut down engine No.1 for convenience of boarding passengers.
6. Start engine No.1 by cross-start.
• In addition, the fuel suppliers' regulations and procedures shall strictly be adhered to.
"Refuelling with One Engine Running" is the name of a supplementary procedure that I have found in the QRH of an operator using 737.
Hope it helps.
General
Refueling with one engine running is permitted only on such airports where no ground start equipment is available and the inoperative APU cannot be repaired with existing facilities.
A detailed briefing is required with cabin crew by the commander.
Procedure
The following procedure shall be applied:
• The airplane shall be positioned into the wind.
• Passengers must be disembarked.
• The airport fire department must be alerted to standby at the airplane during the entire refuelling procedure.
• A fueling pressure of 30 psi at the fueling receptacle should not be exceeded.
• Filling of the fuel tanks shall be discontinued before automatic top-off is engaged, to ensure that no fuel can spill out of the vent outlets.
The following figures represent approximate amounts of usable fuels:
* Usable fuel at level attitude, fuel density=0.8029 kilograms per liter
Note: Fuel density must be between 0.7549 to 0.8507 kg/liter for B 737-800.
• Fuel hoses should be laid out using the shortest route, however as remote as possible from the running engine.
• Refueling operation should only be commenced after having ensured that the permanent control of the emergency fuel shutoff device during the entire fueling
operation is performed by the fueling company.
• Engines may not be started or shut down and no attempt to start the inoperative APU should be made before the fueling operation is terminated and all fuelling
equipment has been disconnected and the fuel truck has been removed to a safe distance from the airplane.
• During the entire fueling operation one crew member has to be present in the cockpit monitoring the fueling gages and one person has to be present at the fuelling station to operate the fueling valve switches manually.
• Fueling shall be performed in the following sequence:
1. Engine No.2 running for convenience of disembarkation of passengers.
2. Start engine No.1 by cross start and shut down engine No.2
3. Refuel with engine No.1 running
4. After refueling operation has been completed disconnect hose from fueling station and position fuel truck or dispenser in safe distance from the airplane.
5. Start engine No.2 by cross-start and shut down engine No.1 for convenience of boarding passengers.
6. Start engine No.1 by cross-start.
• In addition, the fuel suppliers' regulations and procedures shall strictly be adhered to.
There was the incident at Lambert International a years ago where a little girl was killed during passenger boarding by running into the opposite side propeller on a commercial turboprop twin. She dropped a toy and the wind blew it under the fuselage; just enough room for her to duck under but the adults couldn't fit fast enough. I believe after that there was an embargo on engines (at least turboprops) running when passengers were on the apron. I can't imagine it's different for jet engines, though if the engine is far off the ground? That's the incident I would start with to see if it applies.
Google is no help on this - I think it was before the Internet was generally available.
Google is no help on this - I think it was before the Internet was generally available.
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poldek77
Thanks for the feedback. Can you please share a copy of the QRH/FCOM that has this procedure. I downloaded some but could not find this in it. However, refueling with one engine running procedure is also mentioned in A320 FCOM. According to that it would also mean that passengers will be disembarking/embarking with one engine running.
MechEngr
Thanks for the feedback, yes google is not much help in this. I have emailed some authorities but haven't received any reply yet. Like you mentioned I am interested in knowing the risks involved in this procedure.
Thanks for the feedback. Can you please share a copy of the QRH/FCOM that has this procedure. I downloaded some but could not find this in it. However, refueling with one engine running procedure is also mentioned in A320 FCOM. According to that it would also mean that passengers will be disembarking/embarking with one engine running.
MechEngr
Thanks for the feedback, yes google is not much help in this. I have emailed some authorities but haven't received any reply yet. Like you mentioned I am interested in knowing the risks involved in this procedure.
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Thank you. Maybe a 737 guy can confirm the validity for B737. Though for A320 its still valid as it is documented in the latest FCOM. So in the absence of any other document or bulletin, based on this procedure (refueling with one engine running) one can assume that its not illegal to carry out passenger boarding with one engine running. I mean that's the picture visible so far.
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Just received an email from ICAO's head of publication:
I have checked with my colleagues and unfortunately ICAO do not have such specific guidance either from an OPS or an Aerodromes perspective.
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From a handling-perspective, where new safety-bulletins are posted daily and adherence to procedures and documented training is almost all that matters to airlines, a request for a "hot" turnaround would be met with polite "F**k off!"
We're not having staff working around a live engine, much less pax.
20+ years ago, maybe....
We're not having staff working around a live engine, much less pax.
20+ years ago, maybe....
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Maybe not exactly what you are looking for but somehow related.
"Refuelling with One Engine Running" is the name of a supplementary procedure that I have found in the QRH of an operator using 737.
Hope it helps.
General
Refueling with one engine running is permitted only on such airports where no ground start equipment is available and the inoperative APU cannot be repaired with existing facilities.
A detailed briefing is required with cabin crew by the commander.
Procedure
The following procedure shall be applied:
• The airplane shall be positioned into the wind.
• Passengers must be disembarked.
• The airport fire department must be alerted to standby at the airplane during the entire refuelling procedure.
"Refuelling with One Engine Running" is the name of a supplementary procedure that I have found in the QRH of an operator using 737.
Hope it helps.
General
Refueling with one engine running is permitted only on such airports where no ground start equipment is available and the inoperative APU cannot be repaired with existing facilities.
A detailed briefing is required with cabin crew by the commander.
Procedure
The following procedure shall be applied:
• The airplane shall be positioned into the wind.
• Passengers must be disembarked.
• The airport fire department must be alerted to standby at the airplane during the entire refuelling procedure.
Only half a speed-brake
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In Alaska on the 200s, which by the way had the gravel kits. MarkAir. we would get the job done with multiple engine shutdowns and start ups depending on which side was being used at the time.
it was long ago, back in the early 90s so, I think it was: Come in, shut down left engine. Off load pax. close the door. start left eng, shut down right. Do the fuel and bags, off and on. When finished, start right, shut down left, open door, load pax, paperwork. close door and start left engine and leave.
did it several times out in the remote villages. It was always COLD!
it was long ago, back in the early 90s so, I think it was: Come in, shut down left engine. Off load pax. close the door. start left eng, shut down right. Do the fuel and bags, off and on. When finished, start right, shut down left, open door, load pax, paperwork. close door and start left engine and leave.
did it several times out in the remote villages. It was always COLD!
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To 70 Mustang
Do you have to acquire clearance from ATC for switching engine off and on like that?
If you guys do, may know how you request the clearance? Thanks
Do you have to acquire clearance from ATC for switching engine off and on like that?
If you guys do, may know how you request the clearance? Thanks
In Alaska on the 200s, which by the way had the gravel kits. MarkAir. we would get the job done with multiple engine shutdowns and start ups depending on which side was being used at the time.
it was long ago, back in the early 90s so, I think it was: Come in, shut down left engine. Off load pax. close the door. start left eng, shut down right. Do the fuel and bags, off and on. When finished, start right, shut down left, open door, load pax, paperwork. close door and start left engine and leave.
did it several times out in the remote villages. It was always COLD!
it was long ago, back in the early 90s so, I think it was: Come in, shut down left engine. Off load pax. close the door. start left eng, shut down right. Do the fuel and bags, off and on. When finished, start right, shut down left, open door, load pax, paperwork. close door and start left engine and leave.
did it several times out in the remote villages. It was always COLD!
Given that there are less than a dozen civilian control towers in the entire state of Alaska and Mustang said they did this in remote villages I don’t think ATC clearance was an issue.
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ATC? What's that mean?
😀
indeed, very remote villages.
No body else there.
Of course everyone on the airport knew what to do in those cases. It was only when the aircraft of the day had an inoperative APU. Ground crew guided the pax. And the usual -45° (same F or C) helped keep the pax from going on a walk-a-bout.
indeed, very remote villages.
No body else there.
Of course everyone on the airport knew what to do in those cases. It was only when the aircraft of the day had an inoperative APU. Ground crew guided the pax. And the usual -45° (same F or C) helped keep the pax from going on a walk-a-bout.
Depending on aircraft type (location of the engine on the airframe), it can be done safely.
Robust procedures and competent staff will go a long to having your Regulator approve the practice of “hot turn arounds”
Robust procedures and competent staff will go a long to having your Regulator approve the practice of “hot turn arounds”
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Coincidental this topic has recent posts as was searching Google after experiencing a prop starting and running during boarding today. Wondered about procedures which allow this (if any) as have never come across it. As soon as last pax through the door it was closed, left prop started immediately and pushback seconds later with pax still getting seated. Safety announcement done at great speed by one of pilots, initially bilingual then single language, with single cabin crew demonstrating. Whereas on outbound the single cabin crew did it all. Clearly in a hurry to get away, as no proper cabin check was undertaken.
Not a particularly well known airport but one in the western world which receives circa 5 daily pax flights 2 of which are 737s and minimum circa 50 seats as mine was. It has a conventional terminal etc, not a gravel strip in Alaska. Being careful not to ‘name and shame’, just interested in rules and how common this is.
Not a particularly well known airport but one in the western world which receives circa 5 daily pax flights 2 of which are 737s and minimum circa 50 seats as mine was. It has a conventional terminal etc, not a gravel strip in Alaska. Being careful not to ‘name and shame’, just interested in rules and how common this is.
Coincidental this topic has recent posts as was searching Google after experiencing a prop starting and running during boarding today. Wondered about procedures which allow this (if any) as have never come across it. As soon as last pax through the door it was closed, left prop started immediately and pushback seconds later with pax still getting seated. Safety announcement done at great speed by one of pilots, initially bilingual then single language, with single cabin crew demonstrating. Whereas on outbound the single cabin crew did it all. Clearly in a hurry to get away, as no proper cabin check was undertaken.
Not a particularly well known airport but one in the western world which receives circa 5 daily pax flights 2 of which are 737s and minimum circa 50 seats as mine was. It has a conventional terminal etc, not a gravel strip in Alaska. Being careful not to ‘name and shame’, just interested in rules and how common this is.
Not a particularly well known airport but one in the western world which receives circa 5 daily pax flights 2 of which are 737s and minimum circa 50 seats as mine was. It has a conventional terminal etc, not a gravel strip in Alaska. Being careful not to ‘name and shame’, just interested in rules and how common this is.
