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Airbus oldy now a 737 newby………help!

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Airbus oldy now a 737 newby………help!

Old 31st Oct 2021, 10:12
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Are you sure you are on the last route segment when you wind the Alt. away?
Yep. The missed approach altitude was, I think, 3000ft and we went to set it as we passed through about 2500ft from an MDA of ~540. As the ALT knob clicked through 2500 the aircraft went into VNAV ALT.

Stupid bloody thing. Fortunately the weather was great so we turned off the FDs and continued visually.
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Old 31st Oct 2021, 13:45
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Thought the 787 had IAN as standard, which would do away with the need for VNAV on most approaches. Or is it a customer option there as well?
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Old 31st Oct 2021, 20:41
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Alt Flieger

Never is a long time. Have you flown RNP in both 737CL and NG?
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Old 31st Oct 2021, 21:21
  #24 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
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Checked the old manuals, the company would set

MCP = MDA + 50' + Temp. correction

G/A target was dialled when passing 300 ft above the applicable minima.

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Old 31st Oct 2021, 23:37
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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ImbracableCrunk

I have flown thousands of hours in both but RNP only in the -800.
But in both our training department would have a fit if you set 00000.
If you are worried about Alt. Acq. select V/S first.
Flightdetent is correct.
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 00:59
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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You have to set the runway threshold elevation rounded down for a VNAV flown approach on the Classic.

So never say never.
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 02:35
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
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VNAV in a classic.
There’s your problem.
RNP in an -800NG not an issue. They are designed for it.
00000 in the MCP is a bad idea either way.
Certainly not a habit to teach a newbie like the OP.
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 03:03
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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You don't set MAP in the CL until you are going around [Edit: or 300 above mdah]. That's our point.

Last edited by ImbracableCrunk; 2nd Nov 2021 at 13:50. Reason: Correction
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 03:58
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Nope.
I have 15,000 hours on Boeings including a type endorsement from Boeing in Seattle and never ever set MAA in the go-round.
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 06:06
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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I think I agree with you, but the worlds largest 737 operator does just that (and flies 737s about 15.000 hours per day, after flying it for 50 years....)
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 06:08
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Funny enough, albeit it's not the latest FCTM, but Boeing would disagree here:



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Old 1st Nov 2021, 11:44
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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IAN only works for straight-in approaches, so anything else LNAV/VNAV needed.
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 15:04
  #33 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
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Banana Joe

You say have to, our old manuals have different choice: MDA/DDA/DA instead.

Yes, for RNP VNAV on the -400. The graphics recently posted shows exactly the same.

What are we missing, I mean, you're the only one actually flying it, right? Where does this must come from?
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 15:27
  #34 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by FlyingStone View Post
Boeing guidance is the same. If windshear is confirmed, then you should delay takeoff or discontinue the approach (FCOM SP 16 has some good stuff in it). However if windshear is only suspected, you can improve aircraft's performance by rotating at the performance-limited Vr (which can be up to 20kts higher than normal Vr), to give you better performance in case that you actually end up in a windshear.
Yes its an interesting dance that both manufacturers play and most airlines join in. “Windshear bad but just in case, here are some tricks that may help.” I guess during the conversion we are presently conducting my annoyance is with the negative training aspect of the windshear event, too much gung ho and not enough pause……

Originally Posted by FlyingStone View Post
track up is a customer option, that can be only changed by the airline. Personally, I never look at the compass rose below the PFD, and track up is by far superior for most phases of flying, with the odd exception of transitioning to visual part of the landing with high crosswinds, where the runway on the ND will appear straight ahead rather that left/right.
I am rather agnostic about track up versus heading up and am trying to embrace the concept. Its just the transition that is causing the headache. A careers worth of muscle memory dropping my eyes from the PFD straight down to the track diamond to confirm its sitting on the Localiser dagger but the rose on the 737 does not indicate actual current track! Practice I guess.

Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
The company VNAV procedure is to set airfield elevation in the MCP, and only set the go around altitude DURING the go around?? What else does the landing checklist miss out?
This is correct.

Originally Posted by FlyingStone View Post
The altitude set in the MCP window is temporary, it just needs to be something lower than where you are - most operators pick MDA rounded down. You should never actually reach it. Once you're 300' below missed approach altitude you can reset the missed approach altitude and VNAV will ignore it.
That makes sense to me. Even at this early phase of flying the 737 I can see little value in setting the MCP to field elevation, its not offering any protection at all.

Originally Posted by FlyingStone View Post
I'd love to see how that works with very low MAAs, such as 1500ft in BCN or 2000ft in the Netherlands.
Well this is the problem we are having. I have no doubt the missed approach will become more natural with time but at the moment, both myself and my sim buddy are struggling to get all the (uneccesary) calls out PLUS rememebring to ask for the missed approach altitude to be set particularly when all of our go arounds have been to a 2000’ level off along with setting GA thrust manually with an autopilot that kicks off when the TOGA buttons are pressed! Missed approach in this plane is not my favorite past time right now….

Thanks all for the feedback, very interesting discussion from some clearly experienced and thoughtful drivers.

There are some more questions I thought I would throw around.
  1. Our procedure is to manually deploy the speedbrake on touchdown despite the fact that its armed. I have been constantly critiqued for not getting to it fast enough and letting it deploy automatically. I dont miss it on purpose, I am just not fast enough yet. However, it appears to deploy very quickly and I am unsure why we need to race our hand down to deploy it manually. Is there a history of auto failure on the speedbrake?
  1. Not so much 737 related but more generic a question. Our procedure is to call V1 5 knots early to cater for the “delay in recognition”. I have crossed this bridge before on the Airbus in my previous airline where the same procedure was employed. My issue is two fold. Firstly, they will not pin the automation to auto call V1 because it cant be programmed to call 5 knots early. Second, the V1 calculation is designed to cater for the delay in recognition. I have raised this before on PPRuNe and saw some interesting answers but its one that has me intrigued. Can the Boeing be programmed to auto call out V1?
Cheers all and thanks for taking the time.
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 16:04
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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FlightDetent

I've done the type rating at an operator, currently flying at another operator and in both places this is the procedure for a VNAV flown approach. I guess both ways work. We actually set MAA 300ft above MDA if the approach is flown with V/S.

But I would not be surprised my operator may like to complicate things. Considering the country they're based in it would make sense
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 20:47
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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FlyingStone

Thanks for posting that. Our company won’t even let us have the FCTM. I stand corrected.
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 20:49
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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oicur12.again

The V1-5 has always bothered me. And they won’t tell you whether you remove your hand at actual V1 or the V1 call. I see a mix.
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 20:50
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Are you serious? You operate without a copy of FCTM?
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 20:54
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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It's somewhat common for the airline to publish its own version, paraphrased from the manufacturer's, with changes.
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 23:48
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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The question is, why do we have to wait until so late in the approach(300' above MDA) to set the missed approach altitude when there is increased risk of forgetting as one is getting close to minimums and getting more focused on acquiring visual contact with the runway.
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