EASA FTL and ULR flights

[Sidestick_n_Rudder]

Hi guys,

As far as I understand, the absolute maximum Flight Duty Time under EASA regs is 18 hours, allowing for a maximum block time of 16.5 hours with no room to spare in case of any operational disruptions.

This is less than certain Asian, Middle-eastern, or American operators fly at the moment and the newest generation airplanes are just becoming capable of flying Europe-Austraila non-stop (which Qantas already does, sucessfuly).

Such an operation seems impossible at the moment under EASA regs, while everyone else seems to be doing it happily for several years already. Does anyone know if EASA has (or is working on) any provisions for ULR flights?

Cheers,

SnR

[FlightDetent]

I sure do not know, how did you arrive to the -1,5 ?

[Check Airman]

Briefing time?

[Sidestick_n_Rudder]

Where I fly, on longhaul flights, the FDP starts 1.5 hrs before scheduled departure and ends at chocks in - hence the maximum flight time of 16.5, maybe 17 if the operator has different provisions.

Thats not not enough to do a proper ULR flight, like eg. LHR-PER.

From what I’ve seen, other jurisdictions have special provisions for ULR flights, on case by case basis - i.e. certain max FDP is granted for a particular route, taking into account individual arrangements, such as departure time, rest periods, crew requirements etc. Is there anything similar in EASA?

[FlightDetent]

ok. I was wondering of there was 30 minutes past chocks on. The home airline abandoned 1,5 LH briefs about 10 years ago. All of this briefing / reporting time is a bit shady, it depends how honest is the operator with the crew-room to A/C part of the equation. Some FDP-critical missions would only have 45 min briefing time allocated but that is quite far from your question.

Meanwhile, I found this: a starting point?

ARO.OPS.235 Approval of individual flight time specification schemes

(a) The competent authority shall approve flight time specification schemes proposed by CAT
operators if the operator demonstrates compliance with Regulation (EC) No 216/2008 and Subpart
FTL of Annex III to this Regulation.

(b) Whenever a flight time specification scheme proposed by an operator deviates from the
applicable certification specifications issued by the Agency, the competent authority shall apply
the procedure described in Article 22(2) of Regulation (EC) No 216/2008.

(c) Whenever a flight time specification scheme proposed by an operator derogates from applicable
implementing rules, the competent authority shall apply the procedure described in Article 14(6)
of Regulation (EC) No 216/2008.

(d) Approved deviations or derogations shall be subject, after being applied, to an assessment to
determine whether such deviations or derogations should be confirmed or amended. The
competent authority and the Agency shall conduct an independent assessment based on
information provided by the operator. The assessment shall be proportionate, transparent and
based on scientific principles and knowledge.

GM1 ARO.OPS.235(b);(c) Approval of individual flight time specification schemes

ICAO DOC 9966 (MANUAL FOR THE OVERSIGHT OF FATIGUE MANAGEMENT APPROACHES)

Further guidance on fatigue risk management processes, appropriate fatigue management, the
underlying scientific principles and operational knowledge may be found in ICAO Doc 9966 (Manual for
the Oversight of Fatigue Management Approaches).

[Sidestick_n_Rudder]

Thanks Flight Detent , that’s probably what I was looking for. Couldn’t find it in FTL part, didn’t expect it was buried somewhere deep in ARO part.

As for your question - where I fly now, FDP ends at chocks in, while Duty Period ends at C/I+30’ - but there are no daily limits for DP.

I’ve seen different arrangements at different operators, regarding both pre flight and post flight. 1h30’ Reporting for a longhaul flight sounds about right for me, but it depends on individual arrangements of the operator.

The simplest way I’ve seen was to report at the gate, with papers delivered to the cockpit, no crew room at all.

[Fly3]

When I operated ULR flights the ULR rules applied to flight duty periods. These were fairly complicated and involved such things as having routes approved on city pairs basis, crews established in departure time zones for at least two local nights before flight (IIRC) and departure times strictly controlled to two four hours windows in each 24 hours period to avoid arriving at destination during a double circadian low. Crew rest patterns during the flight were also very controlled and had to be recorded. At that time the maximum duty period was flight time plus three hours. Initially we thought the rest patterns were crazy but it quickly became apparent that they were rather good and I for one always arrived much better rested than when I operated normal long-haul flight where rest was usually split half and half.

[cockygashandlazy]

In the middle East ULR operate on an FTL variation from the chapter 7 OMA. I assume if an operator wanted to fly a ULR from Europe then they would apply for the same.

[Sidestick_n_Rudder]

Thanks Gents, that’s interesting stuff.

Fly3 - out of curiosity, could you elaborate on the rest patterns? I would be interested as to how they look.

Cheers,
SnR

[Fly3]

The rules at that time stated that each crew (double crew carried) must rest twice and one rest period must be at least four hours. For example on a 19 hour flight the command crew would return to their seats one hour before landing. They would have rested the previous 5 hours while the relief crew worked. They would work the 5 hours before that while the relief crew was resting. The command crew would have flown from take off but the time from top of climb to the start of the first 5 hour rest period was divided in two and shared. This usually meant the command crew working for approximately the first 4 hours of the flight, resting about 4 hours, working 5 hours, resting 5 hours and working the final 1 hour. Although it sounds a strange way of doing things I found it excellent as we always arrived feeling relatively fresh and ready for the room party.

[Sidestick_n_Rudder]

Thanks Fly3 . That actually makes sense. I found out I can’t sleep in the bunk for more than 4-5 hours in one stretch, anyway. I’m pretty sure I’d prefer it this way, than simply dividing the rest by half.