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Airbus reporting CI

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Airbus reporting CI

Old 27th Jul 2019, 06:19
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Airbus reporting CI

Hi all,

In our fleet we have a constant CI. And we are advised not to fiddle with it to aid OTP. The company have said they track misuse of the CI. Just wondering what other parameters would be monitored and accessed by FDM? Things like STARS/SIDS? V speeds? Or is it basically everything inputted into to the FMGC?

Regards
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 09:08
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Originally Posted by BoeingDriver99 View Post
Hi all,

In our fleet we have a constant CI. And we are advised not to fiddle with it to aid OTP. The company have said they track misuse of the CI. Just wondering what other parameters would be monitored and accessed by FDM? Things like STARS/SIDS? V speeds? Or is it basically everything inputted into to the FMGC?

Regards
I *think* that the answer to your question is in the data pages of the MCDU. Somewhere in there is the list of automated reports that can be sent by ACARS.

A quick check of the FCOM suggests it's 6R, ACARS/PRINT FUNCTION. This brings up the list of automatically sent reports. They're customisable but if you print one you'll be able to see what's sent.

(Lazy option - fly at 0.8M)
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 13:23
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Lav Data

Originally Posted by Fursty Ferret View Post
I *think* that the answer to your question is in the data pages of the MCDU. Somewhere in there is the list of automated reports that can be sent by ACARS.

A quick check of the FCOM suggests it's 6R, ACARS/PRINT FUNCTION. This brings up the list of automatically sent reports. They're customisable but if you print one you'll be able to see what's sent.

(Lazy option - fly at 0.8M)
Fleet dependent of course; but our FDM folks told us they can see ow many tines each Lav flushes on their iPhones.... as far as the exposed FMGS reports; there's much more there that in the Flight Crew UI....
Previous operator had the normal FOQA collection routine, as well as immediate triggers for certain events.. I believe unstable approach was one of them. Engines stream realtime data too.
Anyone flying neos can attest to the constant ACARS data bursts over VHF. -
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 13:35
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There's a new FDM system in the works that is an FDIMU sniffer and can record some 20,000 channels...
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 21:54
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Do they track use of selected speed as well? Seems like your company’s bean counters have to much time on their hands or there are to many bean counters.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 23:15
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A few guys at my airline are paranoid about changing the CI. They'd rather fly in selected speed for 4 hours. I change it when appropriate. Never heard a peep.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 07:59
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Airline SOPs also partly depend on their situation i.e. general experience level. Pilots have changed CI and then forgot about it. So they don't encourage any tinkering with CI. But sometimes it can be useful. If you want to reach your cruise level quickly CI of zero will achieve that.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 08:51
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Originally Posted by vilas View Post
Airline SOPs also partly depend on their situation i.e. general experience level. Pilots have changed CI and then forgot about it. So they don't encourage any tinkering with CI. But sometimes it can be useful. If you want to reach your cruise level quickly CI of zero will achieve that.
I know Easy jet is using CI 0 for the climb phase to climb at VY speed.
But from my experience, I find that climbing with vertical speed works better as in CLB mode the aircraft always pitch up and down to maintain the speed due to wind shift. Kinda annoying especially on heavy A321 at high altitude.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 10:05
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Originally Posted by Pineteam
I find that climbing with vertical speed works better as in CLB mode the aircraft always pitch up and down to maintain the speed due to wind shift. Kinda annoying especially on heavy A321 at high altitude.
Say what?! I don't fly busses but that doesn't sound like a very smart idea at all...
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 11:11
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Originally Posted by pineteam View Post


I know Easy jet is using CI 0 for the climb phase to climb at VY speed.
But from my experience, I find that climbing with vertical speed works better as in CLB mode the aircraft always pitch up and down to maintain the speed due to wind shift. Kinda annoying especially on heavy A321 at high altitude.
I am sure Your airline is very happy with You using V/S rather than CLB.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 11:26
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I find that climbing with vertical speed works better as in CLB mode the aircraft always pitch up and down to maintain the speed due to wind shift.
Actually works quite well in Le Bus. Just need to keep an appropriate VS selected so the thrust doesnít reduce! The pitching in CLB mode can be quite annoying.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 12:19
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Using VS for sustained period in climb can't be a
good idea because climb performance depends on certain speed or M. To maintain that with VS you will have to keep changing the VS. No manufacturer recommends that. In the very old B747 classics we didn't have mach mode so we kept tinkering with VS. no need to go back to Stone age.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 13:22
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Originally Posted by Fathom
Just need to keep an appropriate VS selected so the thrust doesn’t reduce!
I assume you mean speed.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 16:27
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Ok let’s be clear: ​​​There is absolutely no restrictions to use vertical speed during climb by Airbus. As someone above said, just make sure your speed target is high to avoid your engine to spool down. Classic rookie mistake is to forget to wind up the speed before selecting vertical speed. My company has no restrictions to use vertical speed in climb cause there is no reason to unless you are a bot. They allow us to fly raw data where the workload is much higher so using vertical speed with AP is nothing. Only some weak crews don’t like it cause they don’t know the systems and are scared that the speed will drop too much LOL. Those are the same guys who never hand fly the planes cause of the QAR/FDM paranoia.
Just monitor your PFD and adjust your vertical speed accordingly. You are paid to do that and it’s not really an extra work load if you set a reasonable vertical speed you don’t even need to adjust it and you will reach your cruising altitude faster than CLB mode with CI 0 if you do it well. Very useful when you have a Cruise altitude requirement by ATC and you are heavy. Keeping a constant vertical speed makes also ATC happy as in CLB mode when vertical speed drop too much they think you are leveling off and might call your attention. Plus it gives you very accurate climb predictions if requested by atc. Eg climbing at 500 feet/min and 2000 feet to reach cruising altitude, then you know you will reach you cruising level in 4 min. Another bonus if you have a TCAS RA, and you failed to switch off both FDs; well guess what you are already in speed mode so you are safe! It’s a fantastic mode and it’s a shame that some pilots are reluctant to use it. If your airline does not authorize you to use vertical speed mode in climb then I feel sorry for you guys. All pilots using vertical mode on Airbus will acknowledge it’s useful and fun to use.

Peace.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 18:56
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Pineteam
​​​There is absolutely no restrictions to use vertical speed during climb by Airbus.
There's VS mode so obviously it can be used. But what is not restricted doesn't automatically become recommended. CLB and OP CLB are recommended modes speed can be managed or selected. Nowadays VS is generally used in RVSM towards last few thousand to prevent TCAS. Incidentally there is an Airbus mod called TCAP (TCAS Prevention) which automatically reduces the VS to 1000ft on receiving a TA.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 19:48
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Originally Posted by pineteam View Post
Ok letís be clear: ​​​There is absolutely no restrictions to use vertical speed during climb by Airbus. As someone above said, just make sure your speed target is high to avoid your engine to spool down. Classic rookie mistake is to forget to wind up the speed before selecting vertical speed. My company has no restrictions to use vertical speed in climb cause there is no reason to unless you are a bot. They allow us to fly raw data where the workload is much higher so using vertical speed with AP is nothing. Only some weak crews donít like it cause they donít know the systems and are scared that the speed will drop too much LOL. Those are the same guys who never hand fly the planes cause of the QAR/FDM paranoia.
Just monitor your PFD and adjust your vertical speed accordingly. You are paid to do that and itís not really an extra work load if you set a reasonable vertical speed you donít even need to adjust it and you will reach your cruising altitude faster than CLB mode with CI 0 if you do it well. Very useful when you have a Cruise altitude requirement by ATC and you are heavy. Keeping a constant vertical speed makes also ATC happy as in CLB mode when vertical speed drop too much they think you are leveling off and might call your attention. Plus it gives you very accurate climb predictions if requested by atc. Eg climbing at 500 feet/min and 2000 feet to reach cruising altitude, then you know you will reach you cruising level in 4 min. Another bonus if you have a TCAS RA, and you failed to switch off both FDs; well guess what you are already in speed mode so you are safe! Itís a fantastic mode and itís a shame that some pilots are reluctant to use it. If your airline does not authorize you to use vertical speed mode in climb then I feel sorry for you guys. All pilots using vertical mode on Airbus will acknowledge itís useful and fun to use.

Peace.
I've seen that technique. Always struck me as odd. Why not just turn off the AT?
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 19:58
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Originally Posted by pineteam View Post
Ok letís be clear: ​​​There is absolutely no restrictions to use vertical speed during climb by Airbus. As someone above said, just make sure your speed target is high to avoid your engine to spool down. Classic rookie mistake is to forget to wind up the speed before selecting vertical speed. My company has no restrictions to use vertical speed in climb cause there is no reason to unless you are a bot. They allow us to fly raw data where the workload is much higher so using vertical speed with AP is nothing. Only some weak crews donít like it cause they donít know the systems and are scared that the speed will drop too much LOL. Those are the same guys who never hand fly the planes cause of the QAR/FDM paranoia.
Just monitor your PFD and adjust your vertical speed accordingly. You are paid to do that and itís not really an extra work load if you set a reasonable vertical speed you donít even need to adjust it and you will reach your cruising altitude faster than CLB mode with CI 0 if you do it well. Very useful when you have a Cruise altitude requirement by ATC and you are heavy. Keeping a constant vertical speed makes also ATC happy as in CLB mode when vertical speed drop too much they think you are leveling off and might call your attention. Plus it gives you very accurate climb predictions if requested by atc. Eg climbing at 500 feet/min and 2000 feet to reach cruising altitude, then you know you will reach you cruising level in 4 min. Another bonus if you have a TCAS RA, and you failed to switch off both FDs; well guess what you are already in speed mode so you are safe! Itís a fantastic mode and itís a shame that some pilots are reluctant to use it. If your airline does not authorize you to use vertical speed mode in climb then I feel sorry for you guys. All pilots using vertical mode on Airbus will acknowledge itís useful and fun to use.

Peace.
Your FCOM PRO-NOR-SOP should say "Normal vertical mode is CLB or OP CLB with managed speed active".




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Old 28th Jul 2019, 20:09
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To be clear, there's nothing wrong with using VS to climb. I've done it in the past, and will likely do it in the future. I just think that the technique mentioned above seems like it'd be a lot easier if you just turned off the AT.

I also disagree with the earlier poster who said that VS is smoother than CLB. That may be a holdover from another type, but my understanding from the latest Safety First article is that the airspeed info is filtered before being sent to the AP, so the pitch response is nice and smooth, even in bumpy air.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 20:50
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I have no beef in this, but how can you reach cruise altitude faster with VS than CI=0 (assuming that is best rate of climb)? Unless you're zooming the last bit.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 23:02
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Originally Posted by Check Airman View Post
I've seen that technique. Always struck me as odd. Why not just turn off the AT?
From an outsider's perspective (non Airbus and non autothrottle pilot), I'd guess "taboo." That uncomfortable feeling in the back of your mind that doing the thing, in light of how it's not usually done, especially with someone else watching, feels wrong to do as if it's against a rule even though no such rule exists (nor is it dictated by any considered prudence.... or even where prudence would say that it's actively counterproductive)

Kind of like how people will leave the FD up when they obviously have no intention of following it, (and there is no FD mode that will make it track what they intend to do) yet it just... feels wrong to turn off.

Last edited by Vessbot; 28th Jul 2019 at 23:29.
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