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Oceanic airspace

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Oceanic airspace

Old 16th Jun 2019, 15:22
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Oceanic airspace

Does anyone know what the consequence of entering the North Atlantic OCA without oceanic clearance is?
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 22:16
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Depends if you were filed on a track and FL and went in accordance with that clearance as per the contingency procedures. Or are you talking about rocking through without any clearance/filings at all?
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 04:33
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Originally Posted by MCDU2 View Post
Depends if you were filed on a track and FL and went in accordance with that clearance as per the contingency procedures. Or are you talking about rocking through without any clearance/filings at all?
lets say, file a random route and go in without clearance and fly the flight plan route/FL/Mach without deviation. This isn't contingency. You just rocking through without clearance but you do have a flight plan on file
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 05:40
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The last radar sector would turn you around unless you have Oceanic clearance.
At least that's my guess.

Or are you saying you lost radio 1-2 radar sectors before the last radar sector?

Or does flight plan on file mean you took off without any IFR clearance?
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 05:55
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Originally Posted by jowong1 View Post
lets say, file a random route and go in without clearance and fly the flight plan route/FL/Mach without deviation. This isn't contingency. You just rocking through without clearance but you do have a flight plan on file
Several people will be very mad at you.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 06:24
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Deliberately entering the OCA without a valid ATC clearance would surely be a violation of controlled airspace and all that such a violation entails?.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 10:02
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Wasnt it the case that you could enter from NY airspace at planned flight level etc without a clearance due comms difficulties etc?
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 11:04
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5.1.10 If flight crews have not received their oceanic clearance prior to reaching the OCA boundary, they must follow the guidance provided in the appropriate State AIP.
This is from NAT DOC 007
so the answer is, it depends!
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 11:21
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You may well receive and airborne welcoming committee at the other end, possible regarded as a renegade aircraft. You would be in violation of your flight plan.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 11:34
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Originally Posted by lurkio View Post
Wasnt it the case that you could enter from NY airspace at planned flight level etc without a clearance due comms difficulties etc?
It's not so much comms difficulties as just your route is confirmed when you get your initial clearance. You still confirm altitude and and speed with ATC prior to entering the OCA.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 12:32
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Originally Posted by wiedehopf View Post
The last radar sector would turn you around unless you have Oceanic clearance.
At least that's my guess.

Or are you saying you lost radio 1-2 radar sectors before the last radar sector?

Or does flight plan on file mean you took off without any IFR clearance?
no comm failure, no failure of any kind. You take off with an domestic IFR clearance then go oceanic without oceanic clearance. I am just wondering what the consequence is. Monetary fine of the operator (by whom?), or warning letter from NAA, or what?
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 15:00
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In the UK the ANO would probably be used in law, not sure what the max punishments are but they are probably listed somewhere in the document.
Section 2 Para 69 is a bit of a catch-all:
“Operational procedures
(3) The pilot in command must ensure that—
(a) the flight is performed in such a way that the operating procedures specified in the flight manual or, where required the operations manual, for the preparation and execution of the flight are followed;

Enough to say the the brown stuff would hit the fan for the Commander and a P45 would follow.
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