Concerned about cosmic radiation and reproduction.

[meatlover]

Good day gents,

I know this may seem like a silly topic to some, however my worry comes for a few reasons.
I started flying very young, and over the last 3 years, I have been doing long haul in a Middle East based Major carrier..
We not only fly at very high level (390-410 on a regular), but we also do US trips where we are cruising at higher latitudes of 70N. Though a latitude that high is uncommon, normally around the mid 50s, I tend to try and avoid US trips, and stick to Europe and Asia, or even Middle Eastern flights.
I expect to be doing long haul for another 2 years before I move over to the narrow body again for my command.

I can't help but be worried that this radiation will take a toll on me when I decide to start a family some day.
I'm looking to hear from other's experiences, and to see if anyone can shed any light on any measures that can be taken that will help at all.

Thank you in advance and best regards!

[yxcvmnb]

Well,

I can't comment much on the radiation accumulation and it's effect, haven't read that many studies.
But,

Why not start a family now, to play it safe

Side note: I've actually flown with captains who were uneasy about climbing to FL380, concerned with radiation.

[meatlover]

Originally Posted by yxcvmnb

Well,

I can't comment much on the radiation accumulation and it's effect, haven't read that many studies.
But,

Why not start a family now, to play it safe

Side note: I've actually flown with captains who were uneasy about climbing to FL380, concerned with radiation.

Actually same here, have flown with colleagues that would prefer not to.
I presume climbing high but farther away from the poles should not be nearly as bad. I know guys that fly private charters etc fly even higher. We have all flown with guys that are significantly older and just starting a new family with their third wife
My issue is trying to stay away from the higher latitudes, and also looking to see if others can shed light through their own experiences.
The short haul does not sound too bad anymore. Lower levels, much farther away from higher latitudes, and similar time zones! Yep

[Buswinker]

(Not my field of expertise but putting it out there)

if reproduction is your only concern you could perhaps bank some sperm? (Or eggs, whatever takes your fancy)

i worry more about the cancer risk myself but then I’m an old fart!

[KenV]

Originally Posted by meatlover

I can't help but be worried that this radiation will take a toll on me when I decide to start a family some day.
I'm looking to hear from other's experiences, and to see if anyone can shed any light on any measures that can be taken that will help at all.
Thank you in advance and best regards!

It may take a toll on you, and will certainly take a toll on your swimmers. But seeing as you produce a whole new batch of swimmers every few days, you needn't worry about reproduction a few days after you stop exposure to the radiation. If on the other hand you are a female, you are essentially born with every egg you will ever have and if they get irradiated, then your reproductive days are over.

[Ian W]

For those interested read this Report/Web page from the CDC - National Institute For Occupational Safety and Health NIOSH Website on Aircrew Exposure to Cosmic Radiation and the FAA tool for calculation of each flight exposure
As you will see from reading the sites there is not a lot of certainty and a great degree of caution. As the Sun is now 'quiet' the solar wind is reduced and galactic radiation 'cosmic rays' entering the atmosphere are increasing. This will be the case until the Sun moves into the next Solar Cycle #25 and the solar wind increases reducing the number of cosmic rays from reaching Earth.

[wiggy]

As you say Ian it’s complex....a lot of the modelling, such as the various FAA tools such as “CARI”, look only at cosmic rays and as you rightly say as the Sun becomes more active around Solar Max the cosmic ray count reduces..so in the surface that sounds (and is good thing)

However problem then is that around Solar Max you are at increased risk at getting a real short term spike in radiation from a solar particle event....

Avoid high altitudes at high geo-magnetic latitudes (roughly the Poles, northern Canada) is probably the way to handle it if it is something one is fussed about.

[Farm gate]

A few studies by the Danes and the Kiwis, back at the turn of the century highlighted the significant increased risks of contracting Leukaemia, specifically Acute Myeloid Leukaemia (AML) for long haul pilots. I fly long haul, and I have a child recovering from AML. Do a search for the following:

Radiation-induced acute myeloid leukaemia and other cancers in commercial jet cockpit crew: a population-based cohort study.

[giggitygiggity]

Bored as I can't sleep so from a very non-scientific internet search I'd say it could be an issue. I calculated the mSv you'd accumulate flying from 65N to 65N via the North Pole (OULU, Finland to FAIRBANKS, Alaska - North Pole-ish as I got bored trying to think of airports that were suitably located), you'd get a dose of 0.0615 mSv per flight (conservatively estimating 7hrs for each sector). If you did 900hrs a year doing this same flight, you'd pick up 8 mSv of cosmic radiation. EASA 'recommends' that air crew don't exceed 6 mSv a year, so that's potentially more, but not excessively more than the recommendation. I'm not sure how the radiation calculator calculates the figure, but maybe in some cases it's worth investigating further. Perhaps you could buy a commercial dosimeter? Although I'd imagine a pair of lead plated boxer shorts would be cheaper!


From the CAA website (link below)

Individual monitoring is to be regarded as best practice but it is recognised that this can impose unjustifiable cost for some operators. In these circumstances an acceptable course of action would be to rely on an assessment of maximum doses where this shows that air crew will not be approaching annual doses of 6 mSv. A suitable cut off point would be where the assessment indicates a maximum annual dose of 4 mSv. Where air crew are liable to receive doses in excess of 4 mSv per annum, it is recommended that there should be monitoring of individual air crew member's exposure using computer program prediction. The purpose of such monitoring would be to ensure that annual doses did not exceed 6 mSv.

Where an assessment of maximum doses indicates that air crew are liable to exceed 6 mSv per annum, individual monitoring must be carried out. In addition, operators should adjust an air crew member's roster to reduce exposure with the aim of preventing, where possible, doses in excess of 6 mSv per annum. Records for individuals exposed to more than 6 mSv per annum must be kept for a minimum of 30 years from the last annual exposure of more than 6 mSv (even if the individual concerned is deceased) or until the individual is 75 years of age, whichever is the longer period of time.

https://www.caa.co.uk/Our-work/About...mic-radiation/


Feel free to check my maths at the sites listed below the screenshots.



https://www.sievert-system.org/#Calcul



Great Circle Mapper

[hunterboy]

AFAIK, under EASA, airlines have to keep a record of a crew members exposure to radiation. Many do this via the CARI programme integrated into crew rosters. Is it worth asking your admin department? As far as measures to minimise go, I assume it is nearly impossible to reroute to lower latitudes in your airline, leaving flying at lower altitudes as the only method. Personally, I don’t go above FL350 if I can help it above 60N. If that means sticking on an extra tonne or two, so be it.

[B2N2]

I think the drive the airport is potentially more hazardous to your ability to produce offspring.


If you’re this concerned go crop dusting....really.






The chemicals will make your sterile.....bugger.






Become a simulator instructor and live like a mushroom in the dark.
Till a King Air has an engine failure and rolls into your building.


Maybe stay at home in bed.

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by giggitygiggity

I'm not sure how the radiation calculator calculates the figure, but maybe in some cases it's worth investigating further. Perhaps you could buy a commercial dosimeter?

FWIW I used the CARI program many years back to track my exposure - since (as IanW mentioned) the level of Galactic cosmic radiation reaching the upper atmosphere depends upon the Sun''s level of activity (cf. Solar wind) CARI used to use an observed variable called the heliocentric potential (for which you had go online to the likes of NOAA) in it’s algorithms to in part calculate your exposure...that variable at the time was available for I think monthly Intervals. It is possible later versions of CARI will pick that value up automatically once it knows your flight date but I haven't looked at it for a while. Also CARI needs your route and very importantly your flight’s vertical profile. Fundamentally if you want to track your own exposure accurately, rather than come up with generic figures, you need to do a bespoke calculation for your flights, which involves quite a bit of book keeping for every sector regarding date, level changes and route taken and other stuff in order to produce anything really meaningful - simply entering AAA to BBB and a mean flight level can lead to considerable errors.

I did all this this for a year on longhaul and it worked out generally at very roughly 40 micro (uSv) on a Europe -Midwest USA sector and less on other routes.

As for easily avaliable commercial personal dosometers - my contacts tell me there''s nothing really easilly available to the individual as a single device that will cover the full "spectrum" of radiation we are exposed to with adequate sensitivity across the range of radiation types...but I know some disagree.

(Edit to add: For info found my records. Year was 2000, so around a Solar Maximum, aircraft 744 so assume start cruise low with FL’s low 300s end up high FL 300s

typical approximate doses calculated by CARI :

Typical highest “dose” sector Europe -Japan, 50ish uSv
Europe-West Coast States high 40 uSv
Europe-eastern Seaboard 30 uSv
Europe -Central Africa 20 uSv
Europe -South America 30 uSv

[Jwscud]

It’s a fraught subject. Some Captains are keen to stay low, certainly below 400+ for that reason. I used to routinely fly up to 470/490 on biz jets. 490 was the artificial ceiling imposed by the operator as at 490 or below the EASA record keeping for exposure is essentially a book keeping operation based on time flown whereas above 490 specific individual monitoring was required. I don’t know the exact details, but I can confirm that I have (currently - touch wood) healthy children despite both mid-latitude high altitude stuff and long haul northern canada/Russia.

Od course, the plural of anecdote ain’t data, you pays your money &c.

[compressor stall]

There was a thought that one side affect was that it would increase the likelihood of having offspring of the female gender.

I've thought about starting a survey of pilots to determine the veracity of that theory.

[Intruder]

Just make yourself a lead jockstrap.

[hoss183]

As a previous poster said, for males its not a big issue, as new swimmers are made regularly. Just leave a gap ( a week?) between flying and doing the business. For females its another story sadly.
The simulation with 61uSv seems about right, and its not nothing. I work with radioactive sources and my planned yearly dose is 50uSv. Although health problems should not occur until much higher doses. Its not so much a problem of how high you fly, but how many hours per year.

[wiggy]

Thanks for posting that..as much as anything because it prompted me to get my m’sand my u’s sorted out in my earlier post

I was typically picking up about 220 uSv a month , mixture of routes, when I did my logging, flying about 65-70 hours a month (those were the days).

If the high altitudes still bug people it is worth running dummy sectors with the same profiles, e.g. east/west high latitude vs. North south through the likes of CARI to see where the problems really lie and why “capping” levels down near the equator is almost pointless....

[Chris Scott]

Originally Posted by B2N2

I think the drive the airport is potentially more hazardous to your ability to produce offspring.
If you’re this concerned go crop dusting....really.
The chemicals will make your sterile.....bugger.
Become a simulator instructor and live like a mushroom in the dark.
Till a King Air has an engine failure and rolls into your building.
Maybe stay at home in bed.

I'm with B2N2 on this one. Is the OP a member of the Snowflake generation, by any chance?

To be serious, am afraid I can't offer any technical knowledge on cosmic radiation, except that it presumably becomes more of a problem above the tropopause? So I take the point about polar flying - even at relatively low cruise levels. Anecdotally, I can say that I'm male and conceived several children (including one boy) in my twenties while on long-haul jets that frequently flew above the trop.

[Onceapilot]

IMO, there is a statistical increase of risk from harm by radiation at increasing dosage. However, the harm done may not show itself for decades, the percentage of current professional aviators who display symptoms is low-ish and there is never (in the case of long term background level increase) any specific evidence that any particular radiation dose caused a specific harm. Notwithstanding this, radiation damage does occur but, again IMO, regulating authorities and employers have long colluded in downplaying the damage risk.

OAP

[megan]

Some papers on the subject.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/c...0070028831.pdf

https://oem.bmj.com/content/59/7/428

Extracts from the latter,

In assessing risks, it is important to remember that extrapolations are only as good as their underlying assumptions. Little is known of the radiobiological effects of low dose ionising radiation, much less that of low dose ionising radiation of the type and quantity which airline pilots and cabin crew are exposed to at altitude. A great deal of what we assume is therefore inferred by extrapolating from experience with high doses.

Here, there are good grounds to think that the health risk of exposure to cosmic radiation is not zero. We know, for instance, that radiation mutagenesis principally proceeds through DNA deletions, and misrepair and misrecombination at DNA double stranded breaks. We also know that a single track of low energy ionising radiation can produce a double stranded break in the DNA of a single cell nucleus. A study of astronauts on a 4 month mission to the Mir space station (dosage received: 147.5 mSv) has shown significantly increased frequency of chromosomal aberrations after the flight, compared with samples obtained before the flight. A significant increase in chromosomal aberrations has also been found in Concorde pilots compared with controls, and indeed the same has been found in civilian pilots and cabin crew of subsonic aircraft.

Even more worrying is the discovery in 1992 of a previously unknown pathway termed “radiation induced genomic instability”, by which radiation can subvert living cells. It was previously thought that when ionising radiation hits a living cell and damages its DNA, only when the damage is not satisfactorily repaired is it passed on to the daughter cells; now, repeated experiments in vitro and in vivo have shown that radiation can additionally inflict damage that shows up only after several generations of cell division. This is particularly worrying as it raises the spectre of delayed genetic effects on the gene pool of future generations.