737 Go-Around question
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Up North….
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Because the question was what would happen if you were above it. Not particularly tidy if you were given a missed above the maa then decided to continue down below it before you decided to do the missed (a hundred feet above maybe) but just pushing the app button makes life easy.
Gender Faculty Specialist
And that has been answered. The discussion has moved on to the best way to achieve a go around from above the MA.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Well yes that’s the context of the thread.
So, if you have to go around why not wait until you’re below the MAA before you press TOGA?
So, if you have to go around why not wait until you’re below the MAA before you press TOGA?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Up North….
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Because you might be asked to go around in the example at Stockholm above at say 3000 ft. Why would you descend below the 1500ft missed approach altitude? There is no need to, you would just ensure 1500ft was set and disengage the app mode. Job done.
In a climb when ATC tell you to climb 350 and your at 330 do you go through 350 and then descend back to 350?? Would make no sense would it. ATC might have words to say as well.
In a climb when ATC tell you to climb 350 and your at 330 do you go through 350 and then descend back to 350?? Would make no sense would it. ATC might have words to say as well.
Gender Faculty Specialist
2, if you go around above a lower MAA then you’ll be descending anyway.
3, I’m sure ATC won’t mind if I descend to 1499’ before I go around to 1500’, would they?
In a climb when ATC tell you to climb 350 and your at 330 do you go through 350 and then descend back to 350?? Would make no sense would it. ATC might have words to say as well.
Gender Faculty Specialist
So you are going to marginally descend through just so you can press Toga and have the autopilot disconnect and a momentary large increase in commanded thrust? Cancel the disconnect alarm potentially the autothrottle now probably require PM to change a few modes on the MCP so you can select what you want on CMD A. It probably went into ALT AQC at some point so the MCP speed could be somewhere you don't want nor now potentially configured for... I'm sorry but in this case 'keeping it simple' would actually be making an arse of it.
Gender Faculty Specialist
The AP disconnects whenever you press TOGA. Not sure how being closer to the MAA is a problem.
How do you cope when ATC surprises you and sends you around just below, at or slightly above MAA?
How do you cope when ATC surprises you and sends you around just below, at or slightly above MAA?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Up North….
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2, if you go around above a lower MAA then you’ll be descending anyway...... your descending slightly in a g/a (50ft or so if that), in the example above it was talking about more than slight a decent. A go around from way above the MAA and then descending hundreds of feet only to pass through through it, disconnecting the AP, large increase in thrust, cancelling any oral warnings, to climb back up, level off, re-engage AP etc etc doesn't make sense to me.
3, I’m sure ATC won’t mind if I descend to 1499’ before I go around to 1500’, would they?...... your going to push the GA at 1499....impressive, then next time when you miss by 2 feet and you press it at 1501ft and you go to an unrestricted climb they might mind, and before you say you will do it slightly lower than that....how much slightly? Is there an SOP in company X that says push g/a at x number of feet below ? I would be surprised. Then there is the A/P disconnecting in the 737 because of the G/A and the large increase in thrust etc etc, why? You can do it much more efficiently and much more smoothly.
As for the stupid comment.... its the same thing, I was using that argument as a hyperbole. You don't bust levels for the sake of it. That would be stupid.
How do you cope when ATC surprises you and sends you around just below, at or slightly above MAA?........ The operative words there are just above or just below. Then you deal with it as you describe. This discussion was about when you have plenty of time.
Last edited by felixthecat; 25th Aug 2018 at 05:29.
Gender Faculty Specialist
No it wasn’t. You’ve just made that up.
It’s not a level bust if you go below a MAA or we’d be having level busts every day.
It’s not a level bust if you go below a MAA or we’d be having level busts every day.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Fits your argument doesn’t it?
If you don’t care why are you posting?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Up North….
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps with a platform altitude of 3000 and a missed approach altitude of 2000 for example
In Stockholm you capture the G/S at 4000 ft and MAA is 1500 ft.
Because you might be asked to go around in the example at Stockholm above at say 3000 ft.
Yup, all made up
. We don't always go around at exactly the minima or at the MAA in the examples above. Usually in a descending go around it ATC directed and in the above examples there is a long way between 3000 and 2000 in the first point say 1min approx that example, or 4000 and 1500 in second say 2 mins approx. I would say thats 'plenty of time'. If your unable to manage to get the aircraft to smoothly intercept a given altitude and level off in that period without going through selecting TOGA etc etc then you have more problems to worry about. As I said above:
How do you cope when ATC surprises you and sends you around just below, at or slightly above MAA?........ The operative words there are just above or just below. Then you deal with it as you describe. This discussion was about when you have plenty of time.
In Stockholm you capture the G/S at 4000 ft and MAA is 1500 ft.
Because you might be asked to go around in the example at Stockholm above at say 3000 ft.
Yup, all made up
. We don't always go around at exactly the minima or at the MAA in the examples above. Usually in a descending go around it ATC directed and in the above examples there is a long way between 3000 and 2000 in the first point say 1min approx that example, or 4000 and 1500 in second say 2 mins approx. I would say thats 'plenty of time'. If your unable to manage to get the aircraft to smoothly intercept a given altitude and level off in that period without going through selecting TOGA etc etc then you have more problems to worry about. As I said above:How do you cope when ATC surprises you and sends you around just below, at or slightly above MAA?........ The operative words there are just above or just below. Then you deal with it as you describe. This discussion was about when you have plenty of time.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Long post for someone who doesn’t care.
Good maths though.
And the award for master strawmanning goes to you.
Good maths though.
If your unable to manage to get the aircraft to smoothly intercept a given altitude and level off in that period without going through selecting TOGA etc etc then you have more problems to worry about.
Gender Faculty Specialist
No, that would be an attack on your character.
I just pointed out that you intentionally misrepresented my position because it was easier to defeat.
But you still dont care...
I just pointed out that you intentionally misrepresented my position because it was easier to defeat.
But you still dont care...
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Up North….
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It doesn't have to be an attack on character it is an attack on the individual as opposed to the argument. As for straw man, maybe you should read the previous posts a bit closer. PS And I don't really care how YOU fly your approach . Good luck next PPC
Gender Faculty Specialist
Yes, your argument was a straw man argument which I pointed out. That is not an attack on you. If if I was to say, for example, you’re a moron that would be ad hominem. I didn’t, ergo, it wasn’t.
Oooh that’s a good one - how do I fly an approach?!
Oooh that’s a good one - how do I fly an approach?!
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Up North….
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I never misrepresented your position at all, I, in fact agreed with your GA from close to the MAA, but you appear to be unable to see that there are more sides than your one to this problem.
Insulting me just proves your ignorance...QED ad hominem.
Insulting me just proves your ignorance...QED ad hominem.