Military to civilian logbook
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
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Military to civilian logbook
Hey all, I want to run this over. This is for multi engine airplanes.
My military logbook for multi engine has the following columns:
Dual, First Pilot, Second Pilot
We log First Pilot all the time (even if we are not PIC and not sign out the aircraft, even FO's log it under First Pilot). 2nd pilot is rarely used, and only some log it if they are the spare pilot (so not at the controls). This is how the logbook gets certified every month by our chain of command. Like the civilian logbook, there is a column where one enters 1st pilot name, and that acts as PIC (if SELF is not written there, then that means the time entered in the First Pilot column is not PIC).
Now, the civilian logbook as the following columns:
Dual, PIC, Co-Pilot
Now the question is: Am I suppose to log all my time under Co-Pilot column in my civilian logbook unless I actually sign out the aircraft at which point I would log it under PIC? Or log it under PIC column and write the actual PIC person name under that column?
I have a feeling this also might be a bit different depending on the country. If you could also mention what country you are from if you are in a similar situation (military pilot keeping track into a civilian logbook as well), please mention it.
Thanks
P.S. If thread is not in the correct topic, please move it accordingly
My military logbook for multi engine has the following columns:
Dual, First Pilot, Second Pilot
We log First Pilot all the time (even if we are not PIC and not sign out the aircraft, even FO's log it under First Pilot). 2nd pilot is rarely used, and only some log it if they are the spare pilot (so not at the controls). This is how the logbook gets certified every month by our chain of command. Like the civilian logbook, there is a column where one enters 1st pilot name, and that acts as PIC (if SELF is not written there, then that means the time entered in the First Pilot column is not PIC).
Now, the civilian logbook as the following columns:
Dual, PIC, Co-Pilot
Now the question is: Am I suppose to log all my time under Co-Pilot column in my civilian logbook unless I actually sign out the aircraft at which point I would log it under PIC? Or log it under PIC column and write the actual PIC person name under that column?
I have a feeling this also might be a bit different depending on the country. If you could also mention what country you are from if you are in a similar situation (military pilot keeping track into a civilian logbook as well), please mention it.
Thanks
P.S. If thread is not in the correct topic, please move it accordingly
Join Date: Jul 2000
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I look at it like this:
Dual = instruction received, the instructor is PIC
PIC = any time you are the pic and sign the aircraft out
Copilot = any time in the RHS of a certified multi pilot aircraft.
caveat... I've never been a relief pilot, so don't know how that works.
Also it gets complicated in places that put inexperienced pilots into multi crew aircraft, as they don't have enough pic time to apply for the ATPL, so I've heard ways in which they justify logging pic time from the RHS.
One more complication, if flying in the RHS of a single crew certified aircraft, but as a proper part of a multi crew operation (e.g. B1900s are commonly flown with 2 pilots, but are single pilot certified)
I've flown as pic in half a dozen countries across 4 continents. I certainly feel your pain trying to convert from one system to another!
Dual = instruction received, the instructor is PIC
PIC = any time you are the pic and sign the aircraft out
Copilot = any time in the RHS of a certified multi pilot aircraft.
caveat... I've never been a relief pilot, so don't know how that works.
Also it gets complicated in places that put inexperienced pilots into multi crew aircraft, as they don't have enough pic time to apply for the ATPL, so I've heard ways in which they justify logging pic time from the RHS.
One more complication, if flying in the RHS of a single crew certified aircraft, but as a proper part of a multi crew operation (e.g. B1900s are commonly flown with 2 pilots, but are single pilot certified)
I've flown as pic in half a dozen countries across 4 continents. I certainly feel your pain trying to convert from one system to another!
Join Date: May 2000
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US: PIC time is when you are actually handling the controls OR you are in a multi-pilot aircraft and are the designated PIC. So, for the purpose of ATP qualifying time, both count.
HOWEVER, airlines reviewing your logbook for a job generally consider ONLY that time where you are the designated PIC, in the case of multi-pilot aircraft. If you show them a logbook with ONLY PIC time, and no Copilot time, they will likely question it as possible fraud.
It's time to look at the Canadian civil regulations...
HOWEVER, airlines reviewing your logbook for a job generally consider ONLY that time where you are the designated PIC, in the case of multi-pilot aircraft. If you show them a logbook with ONLY PIC time, and no Copilot time, they will likely question it as possible fraud.
It's time to look at the Canadian civil regulations...
