BA pilots (A320): Stabilization/Config on final at which altitude?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Germany
Age: 43
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA pilots (A320): Stabilization/Config on final at which altitude?
Hi everyone,
I'm just attending a aircraft noise workshop and discussing a case at EDDM: The noise experts found out that the A320 with IAE-engines (BA) are producing significantly less noise at approx. 2,5 NM on final 08L than A320 with CFM-engines (LH) at the same point.
Now I am wondering: What do you guys do different? LH has to be stabilized at 1000 ft AGL, i. e. gear, config, appropriate sinkrate and thrust.
One idea is that BA is stabilizing at a lower altitude (500 ft?) - could this be the reason?
Thanks for enlightening me :-)
I'm just attending a aircraft noise workshop and discussing a case at EDDM: The noise experts found out that the A320 with IAE-engines (BA) are producing significantly less noise at approx. 2,5 NM on final 08L than A320 with CFM-engines (LH) at the same point.
Now I am wondering: What do you guys do different? LH has to be stabilized at 1000 ft AGL, i. e. gear, config, appropriate sinkrate and thrust.
One idea is that BA is stabilizing at a lower altitude (500 ft?) - could this be the reason?
Thanks for enlightening me :-)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 737
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One idea is that BA is stabilizing at a lower altitude (500 ft?) - could this be the reason?
Only if they want to be sacked!!!
For the avoidance of doubt. BA’s SAC requires correct landing config at 1000’. Though there MAY occasionally be SPECIFIC acceptable reasons why thrust may not yet be set!
That should not be happening regularly. Only on an occasional basis.
Maybe look at land flap settings? Or AUW’s/Div fuels?
Otherwise, it’s just down to engine performance.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
2 Posts
BA SOPs require stability at 1000ft above the threshold elevation - earlier in some cases as it is RadAlt dependent and Big Brother (we call it SESMA) is watching you.
Generally, landings are flown using Flap 3 unless circumstances require the use of Flap Full.
Generally, landings are flown using Flap 3 unless circumstances require the use of Flap Full.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: England
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flap 3 is more fuel and noise efficient so is the default flap unless it would result in extra brake wear, or the IFLD suggests flap full, or there is a tailwind etc.
Also the BA SOP is for “green ops”, ie delaying the drag as long as possible (subject to the 1000 RA stability requirement (speed/slope/config)), plus single engine taxi in/out and minimal APU use.
Plus BA has the -6DB noise suppressors fitted to the entire fleet as per a previous post.
HTH
LD
Also the BA SOP is for “green ops”, ie delaying the drag as long as possible (subject to the 1000 RA stability requirement (speed/slope/config)), plus single engine taxi in/out and minimal APU use.
Plus BA has the -6DB noise suppressors fitted to the entire fleet as per a previous post.
HTH
LD
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can count on the fingers of two hands the amount of approaches that I’ve flown Config 3 in over two years of flying the bus at BA. Exaggeration in the extreme to say that generally landings are flown with Flap 3. It’s the other way round in my experience.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 737
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can count on the fingers of two hands the amount of approaches that I’ve flown Config 3 in over two years of flying the bus at BA.
I’m very much in the Tay Cough/Locked door school of thought!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe trust the word of someone who flies the aircraft type the OP was asking about. The use of Medium autobrake is expressly not recommended with Config 3. Good luck making A9 or N5 at Heathrow with Config 3 and Low Autobrake. Incidentally Munich is one place where Config 3 and Low Autobrake could work quite nicely.
But maybe the OP wants answers from 747 drivers transposing their SOP’s onto another aircraft of which they are either unfamiliar or have no recent experience with.
But maybe the OP wants answers from 747 drivers transposing their SOP’s onto another aircraft of which they are either unfamiliar or have no recent experience with.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: s england
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But maybe the OP wants answers from 747 drivers transposing their SOP’s onto another aircraft of which they are either unfamiliar or have no recent experience with.[/QUOTE]
Hahaha
Or heaven forbid an A320 pilot transposing their SOPs onto a 747.
It’s perfectly natural but obviously not ideal that if there’s a gap in the manuals to do what you’ve always done previously. It’s a TCs job to identify these gaps a provide appropriate training input. BWDIK.
Hahaha
Or heaven forbid an A320 pilot transposing their SOPs onto a 747.
It’s perfectly natural but obviously not ideal that if there’s a gap in the manuals to do what you’ve always done previously. It’s a TCs job to identify these gaps a provide appropriate training input. BWDIK.
With all this arguing about flaps I suspect the OP wishes he/she hadn’t asked.....
Stabilised at 1000’ AAL (though with limited caveats) is the BA company SOP.....
Stabilised at 1000’ AAL (though with limited caveats) is the BA company SOP.....
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
2 Posts
You never flew with me then. I did them most of the time. It particularly suited a 319 in a crosswind.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Germany
Age: 43
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks a lot for your replies. It seems that it is indeed the engines noise characteristics...
One more thing: Do you guys at BA do the Manual flying with A/THR on or off?
At LH the policy is: Manual flight, Manual thrust.
PS: I do flaps 3 and autobrake LO whenever possible.
One more thing: Do you guys at BA do the Manual flying with A/THR on or off?
At LH the policy is: Manual flight, Manual thrust.
PS: I do flaps 3 and autobrake LO whenever possible.
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Straight Outta Compton
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One more thing: Do you guys at BA do the Manual flying with A/THR on or off?
No A/T off on Minibus or Fatbus I'm afraid. That said, the Minibus has just joined the rest of the world and the landing pilot now selects reverse. So you never know!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hy-Breasail
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts