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BA pilots (A320): Stabilization/Config on final at which altitude?

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BA pilots (A320): Stabilization/Config on final at which altitude?

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Old 16th Apr 2018, 11:59
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Question BA pilots (A320): Stabilization/Config on final at which altitude?

Hi everyone,

I'm just attending a aircraft noise workshop and discussing a case at EDDM: The noise experts found out that the A320 with IAE-engines (BA) are producing significantly less noise at approx. 2,5 NM on final 08L than A320 with CFM-engines (LH) at the same point.

Now I am wondering: What do you guys do different? LH has to be stabilized at 1000 ft AGL, i. e. gear, config, appropriate sinkrate and thrust.

One idea is that BA is stabilizing at a lower altitude (500 ft?) - could this be the reason?

Thanks for enlightening me :-)
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 12:11
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One idea is that BA is stabilizing at a lower altitude (500 ft?) - could this be the reason?
HaHaHaHa!!

Only if they want to be sacked!!!

For the avoidance of doubt. BA’s SAC requires correct landing config at 1000’. Though there MAY occasionally be SPECIFIC acceptable reasons why thrust may not yet be set!

That should not be happening regularly. Only on an occasional basis.

Maybe look at land flap settings? Or AUW’s/Div fuels?

Otherwise, it’s just down to engine performance.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 13:13
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BA SOPs require stability at 1000ft above the threshold elevation - earlier in some cases as it is RadAlt dependent and Big Brother (we call it SESMA) is watching you.

Generally, landings are flown using Flap 3 unless circumstances require the use of Flap Full.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 13:56
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It is posibly down to autothrust vs manual thrust adjustments.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 14:10
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BA has these fitted, does LH?

a320 Whine
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 15:03
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Generally, landings are flown using Flap 3 unless circumstances require the use of Flap Full.


What is the reason for generally Flap 3
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 15:08
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Fuel saving.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 15:10
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Flap 3 is more fuel and noise efficient so is the default flap unless it would result in extra brake wear, or the IFLD suggests flap full, or there is a tailwind etc.

Also the BA SOP is for ďgreen opsĒ, ie delaying the drag as long as possible (subject to the 1000 RA stability requirement (speed/slope/config)), plus single engine taxi in/out and minimal APU use.

Plus BA has the -6DB noise suppressors fitted to the entire fleet as per a previous post.

HTH

LD
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 16:34
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Originally Posted by Fargoo View Post
BA has these fitted, does LH?

a320 Whine
If you try reading your own link, you'll find out.

(it does)
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 19:10
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Originally Posted by Tay Cough View Post
Generally, landings are flown using Flap 3 unless circumstances require the use of Flap Full.
I can count on the fingers of two hands the amount of approaches that I’ve flown Config 3 in over two years of flying the bus at BA. Exaggeration in the extreme to say that generally landings are flown with Flap 3. It’s the other way round in my experience.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 19:16
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I can count on the fingers of two hands the amount of approaches that I’ve flown Config 3 in over two years of flying the bus at BA.
I accept there are different implications for A319/320/321. But maybe have a chat with your colleagues?

I’m very much in the Tay Cough/Locked door school of thought!
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 19:21
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Originally Posted by Tay Cough View Post
Generally, landings are flown using Flap 3 unless circumstances require the use of Flap Full.
Are you even a BA pilot? I havenít seen anyone fly a flap 3 landing for over 12 months.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 19:27
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Maybe trust the word of someone who flies the aircraft type the OP was asking about. The use of Medium autobrake is expressly not recommended with Config 3. Good luck making A9 or N5 at Heathrow with Config 3 and Low Autobrake. Incidentally Munich is one place where Config 3 and Low Autobrake could work quite nicely.

But maybe the OP wants answers from 747 drivers transposing their SOPís onto another aircraft of which they are either unfamiliar or have no recent experience with.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 11:32
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But maybe the OP wants answers from 747 drivers transposing their SOPís onto another aircraft of which they are either unfamiliar or have no recent experience with.[/QUOTE]
Hahaha
Or heaven forbid an A320 pilot transposing their SOPs onto a 747.
Itís perfectly natural but obviously not ideal that if thereís a gap in the manuals to do what youíve always done previously. Itís a TCs job to identify these gaps a provide appropriate training input. BWDIK.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 12:06
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With all this arguing about flaps I suspect the OP wishes he/she hadnít asked.....

Stabilised at 1000í AAL (though with limited caveats) is the BA company SOP.....
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 14:07
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
If you try reading your own link, you'll find out.

(it does)
Erm, you're quite right Dave. What a plonker
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 14:12
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Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
I can count on the fingers of two hands the amount of approaches that Iíve flown Config 3 in over two years of flying the bus at BA. Exaggeration in the extreme to say that generally landings are flown with Flap 3. Itís the other way round in my experience.
You never flew with me then. I did them most of the time. It particularly suited a 319 in a crosswind.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 19:57
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Thanks a lot for your replies. It seems that it is indeed the engines noise characteristics...

One more thing: Do you guys at BA do the Manual flying with A/THR on or off?

At LH the policy is: Manual flight, Manual thrust.

PS: I do flaps 3 and autobrake LO whenever possible.
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 12:35
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One more thing: Do you guys at BA do the Manual flying with A/THR on or off?
Good god, no!

No A/T off on Minibus or Fatbus I'm afraid. That said, the Minibus has just joined the rest of the world and the landing pilot now selects reverse. So you never know!
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 17:17
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Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
The use of Medium autobrake is expressly not recommended with Config 3 .
Do you have a reference for that in any Manual? Or itís a company restriction/policy?

Thanks
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