When are you allowed to put your hand back on thrust levers after V1?
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From: USA
Devil's advocate- if you get windshear at 100ft and your hand isn't on the thrust levers, what precludes you from reaching over and grabbing them?
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From: UK
old habits
I would think this is a hangover from the days big pistons were around. You kept your hands near or on the power levers in case they vibrated closed. Too tight a friction nut could inhibit the closing of the throttle in case of fire in these petrol fed monsters. People today are so used to jets and paraffin fuels they forget how tight performance and safety margins used to be.
Thread Starter
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From: The Roman Empire
About the Engine anti ice thing on the Airbus: the reason the manufacturer wrote such SOP is that as soon as you turn ONE engine antiice on a MEMO will appear: ENG ANTIICE ON.
Turning only one on would create a trap in making you believe they are both on before takeoff, the phase in which they are really needed.
They privileged the safest solution between two contrasting requirements.
Turning only one on would create a trap in making you believe they are both on before takeoff, the phase in which they are really needed.
They privileged the safest solution between two contrasting requirements.
Thread Starter
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From: The Roman Empire
Having said that, I'm amazed too at how many replies there have been to my question.
Thanks to all for that!
Once again, automation, aircraft type or moving/not moving thrust levers have nothing to do with my original concern.
I'm a fanatical advocate of tactile feedback, and that's why I despise Airbus.
Keep your hand on the thrust levers as much as possible, but please, NOT DURING THE FIRST 400FT!!!
Your hand there is dangerous, and that's why you HAVE to REMOVE it at V1!
Thank you,
LEM
Thanks to all for that!
Once again, automation, aircraft type or moving/not moving thrust levers have nothing to do with my original concern.
I'm a fanatical advocate of tactile feedback, and that's why I despise Airbus.
Keep your hand on the thrust levers as much as possible, but please, NOT DURING THE FIRST 400FT!!!
Your hand there is dangerous, and that's why you HAVE to REMOVE it at V1!
Thank you,
LEM
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From: Somewhere over the rainbow
From FCTM: « The Flight crew can easily and intuitively monitor the energy of the aircraft via current energy cues (speed, speed trend, engine parameters), and not via ambiguous thrust levers movement. »
And I could not agree more, in a glitch of an eye you know exactly what your engines are doing.
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From: OFCR
83 (eighty-three) post of discussion for something I though common practice on most types/manufacturers. I am aghast.
I really don't see the need of putting back your hand on the throttles after liftoff in "normal" ops, assumed you took it off at or prior to V1 of course.
Maybe you could guard the TLs, after 400ft, if you want to be extra careful and verify that reaching the trust reduction altitude (or elevation, name it) the autothrottle gives you a climb setting. Once the latter is established there's no need for touching.
I really don't see the need of putting back your hand on the throttles after liftoff in "normal" ops, assumed you took it off at or prior to V1 of course.
Maybe you could guard the TLs, after 400ft, if you want to be extra careful and verify that reaching the trust reduction altitude (or elevation, name it) the autothrottle gives you a climb setting. Once the latter is established there's no need for touching.
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From: LGW
About the Engine anti ice thing on the Airbus: the reason the manufacturer wrote such SOP is that as soon as you turn ONE engine antiice on a MEMO will appear: ENG ANTIICE ON.
Turning only one on would create a trap in making you believe they are both on before takeoff, the phase in which they are really needed.
They privileged the safest solution between two contrasting requirements.
Turning only one on would create a trap in making you believe they are both on before takeoff, the phase in which they are really needed.
They privileged the safest solution between two contrasting requirements.
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From: Somewhere over the rainbow
The only time I had problem with the brakes was during my base flight. When I released the parking brake, the Ecam memo was still showing "Parking brake" and the triple indicator was also showing pressure but the handle was definitely set to off and the orange light on the nose gear was also still on. The ecam memo is always the reality but not the switches, at least from my experience and that's what I was told during my type rating. It's true tho in case of engine anti ice, you can't be sure it's on for both engines unless you look at the actual switches or the engines EPR/N1 limits discrepancy 
. Saying that, guys looking down at the flaps levers , or gears levers for instance to confirm the position are doing the check incorrectly. the correct flaps or gears setting is confirmed by looking at the ecam or the landing gear indicator lights only. Except during cockpit preparation to confirm the levers match the correct gears/flaps position.
. Saying that, guys looking down at the flaps levers , or gears levers for instance to confirm the position are doing the check incorrectly. the correct flaps or gears setting is confirmed by looking at the ecam or the landing gear indicator lights only. Except during cockpit preparation to confirm the levers match the correct gears/flaps position.
Last edited by pineteam; 2nd May 2018 at 11:34. Reason: typo + one sentence
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From: Wanderlust
It surprises me how often people set the parking brake but don’t check the tripple indicator.
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From: Somewhere over the rainbow
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From: B.C.
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From: USA
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From: Everett, WA
It’s been discussed before and I will repeat myself but even if I agree that having auto throttle has its advantages, the way Airbus has designed its instruments, you really don’t need them.
From FCTM: « The Flight crew can easily and intuitively monitor the energy of the aircraft via current energy cues (speed, speed trend, engine parameters), and not via ambiguous thrust levers movement. »
And I could not agree more, in a glitch of an eye you know exactly what your engines are doing.
From FCTM: « The Flight crew can easily and intuitively monitor the energy of the aircraft via current energy cues (speed, speed trend, engine parameters), and not via ambiguous thrust levers movement. »
And I could not agree more, in a glitch of an eye you know exactly what your engines are doing.
With moving throttles, the throttle movement tells you what the engines are going to do. Many pilots like that information, particularly during final approach/landing. Not normally needed during climb/cruise.
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From: USA
Agreed. Although I'll admit that perhaps because they don't move, I tend to be more aware of my N1 in the bus. Putting a little motor beneath the levers wouldn't have killed Airbus though.
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From: Dubai, once... now London
Hello 👋
I seem to remember, many many moons ago (lates 90s/early 00s?) a recommendation from Airbus advising not to have your hand on the thrust levers when becoming airborne except on an “as required” basis I.e. setting TOGA, setting CLB thrust, etc.. but I can’t find any reference anymore.
I seem to remember, many many moons ago (lates 90s/early 00s?) a recommendation from Airbus advising not to have your hand on the thrust levers when becoming airborne except on an “as required” basis I.e. setting TOGA, setting CLB thrust, etc.. but I can’t find any reference anymore.
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From: Top Bunk
Talking about being helpful. Anecdotal story of the ever polite co-pilot who was waiting for his captain to ask for landing gear down. Close to touch down and the gear still up, he asks the captain "Would you like the gear down now, Captain - or do you prefer to land with wheels up?"
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From: Dubai, once... now London
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From: Seat 1A
Originally Posted by Airbus
not via ambiguous thrust levers movement.
Originally Posted by TDRacer
With moving throttles, the throttle movement tells you what the engines are going to do. Many pilots like that information, particularly during final approach/landing.
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From: Somewhere at the Milky Way
Thread is up again, I have to admit that the discussion here is very enjoyable to read.
One thing I was told on the Airbus is that the ecam memo is telling you the state of a particular switch, but not that it is working or not. The example of the parking brake mentioned above is very good, the brake memo is telling you the position of the switch/handle but not if it is working as intended. Then for a malfunction or swith position disagree we would have an ECAM, in the case of the parking brake that ECAM, (Parking brake not set) could come late if the aircraft has started rolling on a downslope apron and the chokes are not yet in position.
Other statement I've read and I like, is that about the tactile feeling the authothrottle has as telling you what it is going to do next. In the Airbus we have the N1 trend cues telling us exactly that, what the engine response will be in the next second. I tend to look to these from second to second in gusty conditions to confirm what is going on, and it comes naturally to my scan of airspeed, pitch, VS and then engine cue. All in an almost single glance.
One thing I was told on the Airbus is that the ecam memo is telling you the state of a particular switch, but not that it is working or not. The example of the parking brake mentioned above is very good, the brake memo is telling you the position of the switch/handle but not if it is working as intended. Then for a malfunction or swith position disagree we would have an ECAM, in the case of the parking brake that ECAM, (Parking brake not set) could come late if the aircraft has started rolling on a downslope apron and the chokes are not yet in position.
Other statement I've read and I like, is that about the tactile feeling the authothrottle has as telling you what it is going to do next. In the Airbus we have the N1 trend cues telling us exactly that, what the engine response will be in the next second. I tend to look to these from second to second in gusty conditions to confirm what is going on, and it comes naturally to my scan of airspeed, pitch, VS and then engine cue. All in an almost single glance.
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From: Somewhere over the rainbow
tdracer The display on Airbus also tells you what the engines are going to do via the EPR/N1 command displayed on the engine warning display.
hannibal lecter oups. I was few minutes late. Great reply!
hannibal lecter oups. I was few minutes late. Great reply!