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-   -   When are you allowed to put your hand back on thrust levers after V1? (https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/607582-when-you-allowed-put-your-hand-back-thrust-levers-after-v1.html)

LEM 9th Apr 2018 17:53

When are you allowed to put your hand back on thrust levers after V1?
 
V1= Remove your hand

Why? Because leaving it there is dangerous.

Most guys put it back right after a second.

Not only ridiculous, but dangerous!

How come in our history nobody has raised the question: When can you put it back there?

I suggest not before 400ft.

Icelanta 9th Apr 2018 18:01

First thrust reduction altitude.

GlenQuagmire 9th Apr 2018 18:36


Originally Posted by Icelanta (Post 10112430)
First thrust reduction altitude.

yeah you definitely don't want pilots touching the controls.

Dupre 9th Apr 2018 18:47

Good question, which I have thought of previously but never asked.

I like to have my hand on the levers again fairly quickly especially if windshear is likely.

Personally I use anything between gear up and thrust reduction altitude depending on the day.

Intruder 9th Apr 2018 19:05

What is the altitude where you can begin your immediate action procedures if an engine fails? Until then, concentrate on flying and trimming the airplane.

lomapaseo 9th Apr 2018 19:16


immediate action procedures if an engine fails?
I shudder at the use of the word "immediate"

Nothing like a good substitute for simulator training

Check Airman 9th Apr 2018 22:12


Originally Posted by TangoAlphad (Post 10112633)
Usually after I call for gear up I'll put my hand on the thrust levers. I don't see why not? Windsheer or a misbehaving auto throttle tries to pull them back near the ground having my hand there will stop em.

Gotta love Airbus!

piratepete 9th Apr 2018 22:18

Like many issues flying jets this is left deliberately not addressed because airmanship should be applied using common sense as a back up to these automation systems.Personally I always place a hand back on the thrust levers (even on an airbus) once the gear is up because I was once taught a good lesson.Departing VTBU at night with a close in turn and the autothrottle in "throttle hold mode" ie thrust levers should not move before the selection of another vertical mode, the left thrust lever , at around 600 feet very rapidly retarded to idle position for no apparent reason (pre-fadec engine).Fortunately this was picked up in my scan and take off thrust was immediately restored but this could have ended quite badly.

Feather44 9th Apr 2018 22:23

Whenever you want

maggot 9th Apr 2018 22:32

All ya Gunna do on a bus is bump it out of a detent in turb.
Even without your hand on em you can have Toga in a flash

Whenever you feel

piratepete 10th Apr 2018 01:36

Tactile Feedback = feel something , then respond.You cant feel something if you are not touching it........

sheppey 10th Apr 2018 02:04


V1= Remove your hand

Why? Because leaving it there is dangerous.
There is sure some quaint thinking in aviation.
There is no need to remove your hand off the thrust levers at V1. It was originally an old airline taught "tradition" that you intended to "Go".

Traditions have their use-by date in flying aeroplanes. It is just as easy to rotate with one hand on the control column wheel as it is to use the computer joy stick on an Airbus type. IMHO, It is common sense and good airmanship to keep one hand on the thrust levers during the take off roll and initial climb even with autothrottle system engaged.

ACMS 10th Apr 2018 03:31

Trying to re-invent the wheel.

Take your hand off at V1.......

Lead not to temptation is the plan.

They don’t need your help, leave them alone.

Reims_Rocket 10th Apr 2018 07:12

After you feel that your airplane is well trimmed. In my opinion it is not when you are "allowed" but when is it "convenient" All is about priority. If you have a mistrimmed stabilizer in excessive nose down position, you may need your both hands to pull the control column. I think once you feel comfortable you can put back your hand on thrust levers...although some super instructors have a strict rule about it.

FE Hoppy 10th Apr 2018 08:34

When selecting reverse after landing?

dixi188 10th Apr 2018 08:48

I always thought one of the reasons for removing ones hand from the thrust levers at V1 was in case your seat slid back on rotation.
As well as having trouble flying the aircraft the last thing you want is closed thrust levers!

Wizofoz 10th Apr 2018 09:10

For me usually as soon as I'm established and trimmed at the initial climb attitude- then the extra precision of two hands on the column isn't needed, and obviously I'm not going to instinctively try and reject!

applecrumble 10th Apr 2018 10:45


Originally Posted by sheppey (Post 10112788)
There is sure some quaint thinking in aviation.
There is no need to remove your hand off the thrust levers at V1. It was originally an old airline taught "tradition" that you intended to "Go".

Traditions have their use-by date in flying aeroplanes. It is just as easy to rotate with one hand on the control column wheel as it is to use the computer joy stick on an Airbus type. IMHO, It is common sense and good airmanship to keep one hand on the thrust levers during the take off roll and initial climb even with autothrottle system engaged.

If you have a large V1,VR split then you can say that you won't reject all you like but when in the sim you are programmed to shut the thrust levers at the sound of a master warning then you may do the same instinctively. The major aircraft manufactures recommend taking your hand off at V1.

stilton 10th Apr 2018 23:42


Originally Posted by sheppey (Post 10112788)
There is sure some quaint thinking in aviation.
There is no need to remove your hand off the thrust levers at V1. It was originally an old airline taught "tradition" that you intended to "Go".

Traditions have their use-by date in flying aeroplanes. It is just as easy to rotate with one hand on the control column wheel as it is to use the computer joy stick on an Airbus type. IMHO, It is common sense and good airmanship to keep one hand on the thrust levers during the take off roll and initial climb even with autothrottle system engaged.


I couldn’t disagree more, there’s a very good reason
Boeing procedure has you removing your hands from
the thrust levers at V1


It means you are committed to go, to continue the take
off from that point and not reject barring the most catastrophic
circumstance


Your performance planning is based on this analysis


The chances of a pilot initiating a reject in error
above V1 (ie most) are significantly increased by
leaving your hand on the thrust levers


You are physically tempting an action which
is extremely poorly advised


That, along with defying the manufacturers
recommendations is a complete lack of airmanship

Killaroo 11th Apr 2018 01:31

This thread sums up the airline training and standards ‘industry’ for me.
Every bugger has a theory. When they become Chief Pilot they start foisting it on the rest of us, right or wrong.


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