FD distraction danger during Go Around
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It reads as if vilas was talking about a jet orientation course, not the type rating itself. The type rating, even in toulouse, is only 8 to 10 sessions and there is a lot of stuff to cover so manual flight does happen, but not all often.
The AP on FD off thing seems to be mainly a 737 thing where that is absolutely possible, although still not standard operation technique. As usual, a pilot should know how to operate his aircraft and if something like that is possible or not.
The AP on FD off thing seems to be mainly a 737 thing where that is absolutely possible, although still not standard operation technique. As usual, a pilot should know how to operate his aircraft and if something like that is possible or not.
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It is not permitted and it is not a good idea to do so because when the AP misbehaves it may not be easy to detect.
In 80's in UK B767 the CAA insisted that when all 3 autopilots were engaged for autoland the FD's disappeared.
Why is it not permitted? If each is manually selectable then it is possible, technically.
In 80's in UK B767 the CAA insisted that when all 3 autopilots were engaged for autoland the FD's disappeared.
Why is it not permitted? If each is manually selectable then it is possible, technically.
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RAT 5
The very point I am trying to make is that line pilot has a brief on how to go about doing his business that doesn't include any testing with passengers on board. Air Asia Indonesia trying to find if it is possible to reset CBs in flight, Pinnacle flight 3701(though no pax) trying to find out how high can you reach are the examples that makes for tragic reading. There is a long list of what is possible. To have real practice of OEI in flight, direct law in flight is possible but you simply don't do it. Besides what's the purpose? you want to develop manual flying skills do it the recommended way, just switch off automatics and do it. The medicine should not be deadlier than the disease.
The very point I am trying to make is that line pilot has a brief on how to go about doing his business that doesn't include any testing with passengers on board. Air Asia Indonesia trying to find if it is possible to reset CBs in flight, Pinnacle flight 3701(though no pax) trying to find out how high can you reach are the examples that makes for tragic reading. There is a long list of what is possible. To have real practice of OEI in flight, direct law in flight is possible but you simply don't do it. Besides what's the purpose? you want to develop manual flying skills do it the recommended way, just switch off automatics and do it. The medicine should not be deadlier than the disease.
Ridiculous, the SFO 777 crash was caused by a Pilot that didn't know how to fly.
If you're so dependent on automation you cannot fly and literally crash without
being able to depend on all its functions your are in fact, not a Pilot just a passenger
along for the ride.
If you're so dependent on automation you cannot fly and literally crash without
being able to depend on all its functions your are in fact, not a Pilot just a passenger
along for the ride.
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Denti
The straight type rating course is meant for pilots who have acquired basic flying skills in another jet aircraft. They are taught the procedures and peculiarities of airbus. But you do find an experienced 737 copilot has no idea how to fly an ILS without FD'S. Then the course has no space to learn that afresh. He is worse off than 200 hrs. guy who gets extra training JOC.
The straight type rating course is meant for pilots who have acquired basic flying skills in another jet aircraft. They are taught the procedures and peculiarities of airbus. But you do find an experienced 737 copilot has no idea how to fly an ILS without FD'S. Then the course has no space to learn that afresh. He is worse off than 200 hrs. guy who gets extra training JOC.
Thread Starter
Back in 1966, several RAAF pilots were sent to Avro's at Woodford Cheshire to undergo a type rating course on the VIP version HS 748 and ferry two aircraft back to Australia.
I believe Collins had a deal with Hawker Siddeley to installed FD 108's into the 748. In my view, you didn't need a FD in a 748 because it was a slow turbo-prop. Others disagreed though and loved flicking the switches. So we were sent to Weybridge for a one day course on the FD108. I think we spent about two hours in a classroom lectured by smooth talking white coated sales people and were showered in pretty brochures including how you could do 45 degree automatic intercepts of an ILS.
We were then given a wonderful free lunch by the Collins Reps including free grog at a local pub. After this long lunch we asked about the remainder of the FD 108 course and were told we had successfully completed the course and I have a vague idea we were presented with a Certificate of Completion.
I think I flew about 700 hours on the HS 748 and never used the FD. I will never forget that lunch and the subsequent hang over, though
I believe Collins had a deal with Hawker Siddeley to installed FD 108's into the 748. In my view, you didn't need a FD in a 748 because it was a slow turbo-prop. Others disagreed though and loved flicking the switches. So we were sent to Weybridge for a one day course on the FD108. I think we spent about two hours in a classroom lectured by smooth talking white coated sales people and were showered in pretty brochures including how you could do 45 degree automatic intercepts of an ILS.
We were then given a wonderful free lunch by the Collins Reps including free grog at a local pub. After this long lunch we asked about the remainder of the FD 108 course and were told we had successfully completed the course and I have a vague idea we were presented with a Certificate of Completion.
I think I flew about 700 hours on the HS 748 and never used the FD. I will never forget that lunch and the subsequent hang over, though
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Denti
The straight type rating course is meant for pilots who have acquired basic flying skills in another jet aircraft. They are taught the procedures and peculiarities of airbus. But you do find an experienced 737 copilot has no idea how to fly an ILS without FD'S. Then the course has no space to learn that afresh. He is worse off than 200 hrs. guy who gets extra training JOC.
The straight type rating course is meant for pilots who have acquired basic flying skills in another jet aircraft. They are taught the procedures and peculiarities of airbus. But you do find an experienced 737 copilot has no idea how to fly an ILS without FD'S. Then the course has no space to learn that afresh. He is worse off than 200 hrs. guy who gets extra training JOC.
Anyway, the point about the FDs being off while the AP is on depends very much on type. In the airbus it is a huge thing not to do. In other types it doesn't matter at all, like the 737 for example. Quite a few of my colleagues used that mode as their preferred way to operate and there was no downside to that. Now that they are on the bus they did adjust and just do normal FD off take offs like anybody else.
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I wonder if airlines' top class trainers, the top class XAA Flt Ops Inspectors & technical pilots, the manufacturers top pilots, human factors and human performance experts or a conference relevant to the matter of pilot training have ever debated the merits of monitoring an autopilot flight with FD's OFF. It is a human factors issue more than a technical one. IMHP the FD is a guidance system to achieve a task. Therefore it is more relevant to manual flight than automatic flight. There is an argument that it hinders monitoring if all you do is glance and find it always centred. It can lull one's senses into thinking all is hunky-dory.
