turns at low altitude
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: a-c-ya
turns at low altitude
...when is it safe to bank more than 15deg after takeoff? in our TOL cards you have the flap retraction and slat retraction speed, then a slats extended min maneuvering speed and a clean minimum maneuvering speed. so assuming i have to make a turn immediately after takeoff, am i limited to just 15 deg or will i safely be able to bank more than 15 if i fly faster than the minimum maneuvering speed for the takeoff flap setting? (incidentally this speed can be found right at the back, on the landing side for the same weight). also, what exactly does minimum maneuvering speed mean? does it just mean no banking more than 15 degrees? or are there other restrictions to this? thanks
still learning....
Joined: Jul 1999
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From: USA
A minimum maneuvering speed is just that. It is the slowest speed at which you can maneuver, which means you can exceed 15 degrees and go (usually) to 30 degrees. Slower than that speed, you must restrict your bank.
As far as the safe altitude to initiate a turn, that's a little subjective. If you are nevernever going to experience any engine problems, control problems or obstacles, then I suppose a case could be made that you can turn as soon as you're safely airborne. On the other hand, ...............
As far as the safe altitude to initiate a turn, that's a little subjective. If you are nevernever going to experience any engine problems, control problems or obstacles, then I suppose a case could be made that you can turn as soon as you're safely airborne. On the other hand, ...............
Fleet Manager
Joined: Apr 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: various places .....
Normally, an immediate after takeoff turn is for obstacle problems.
The main concerns are
(a) constraining track which is turn radius controlled .. ie speed and bank angle related
(b) for the OEI case, 15 degrees is the accepted maximum for a reasonable balance between climb gradient reduction and turn performance. As the target is V2 in the OEI case (ie the designer doesn't have much flexibility with speed) one often sees the situation where a procedure specifies a lesser bank angle to better match turn radius to the obstacle requirement
(c) unless a separate AEO case is prescribed, the AEO tracking should follow the OEI which, in turn, requires a similar speed and bank schedule. It is turn radius which is important here .. not manoeuvring.
One must not increase beyond the procedure's stated speeds as this will invalidate the assumptions which the ops engineer used in developing the procedure.
The question of manoeuvring restrictions relates only to maintaining a sensible stall speed margin in normal operational manoeuvring and is quite different to the considerations in escape planning. Imperative that the two are not confused.
The main concerns are
(a) constraining track which is turn radius controlled .. ie speed and bank angle related
(b) for the OEI case, 15 degrees is the accepted maximum for a reasonable balance between climb gradient reduction and turn performance. As the target is V2 in the OEI case (ie the designer doesn't have much flexibility with speed) one often sees the situation where a procedure specifies a lesser bank angle to better match turn radius to the obstacle requirement
(c) unless a separate AEO case is prescribed, the AEO tracking should follow the OEI which, in turn, requires a similar speed and bank schedule. It is turn radius which is important here .. not manoeuvring.
One must not increase beyond the procedure's stated speeds as this will invalidate the assumptions which the ops engineer used in developing the procedure.
The question of manoeuvring restrictions relates only to maintaining a sensible stall speed margin in normal operational manoeuvring and is quite different to the considerations in escape planning. Imperative that the two are not confused.
