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Landing the A330 vs the A320

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Landing the A330 vs the A320

Old 29th Feb 2016, 10:45
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Landing the A330 vs the A320

Hi guys,

I am about to start my line training on the 330. Been flying the 320 for a while now, now CCQing. Biggest concern for me is the landing (don't ask me why, but I feel kind of apprehensive about that)

Is it very different between these 2 types? I noticed in the sim that the flare height is markedly higher in the bigger bird. I am aware of that (and it's quite logical, since the 330 is longer and higher) and did the landings in the sim alright (ZFTT included), but it feels kinda weird...

Any tips on how to make it work well?

Cheers,

S_n_R

Last edited by Sidestick_n_Rudder; 29th Feb 2016 at 11:29.
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Old 29th Feb 2016, 13:49
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Landing the 330 is much easier than the 320.
The 320 has to be flared rather low with a distinctive amount of back stick, while on the 330 you can just start pulling slightly passing 30 ft and keep it right there. If you were stable on approach it will settle just nicely.
Yes, be aware that the nose wheel needs some backstick action as well.
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Old 29th Feb 2016, 15:18
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I spent 8 years on the 320 then 12 on the 330 and now back to the 320 again.

I find the 320 easier to fly an approach in than the 330. Sink rate is easier to control and it goes where you point it. The 330 only goes where you point it after a lengthy committee hearing.

But landing the 330 is easier. Different flare law and less flare needed. Its just a gentle tap of backstick and let it settle.

My suggestion in the 330, be very careful when correcting for being high on slope in the last 100-200. Sometimes its better to accept being slightly high than to build up a high sink rate trying to get back down.
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Old 29th Feb 2016, 20:08
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You are very fortunate; the 330 is simply wonderful.
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Old 29th Feb 2016, 20:49
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The 330 is cushioned by ground effect and does not seem to fall out of the sky as my 321 landings occisionally do. The rear bogey wheels are landed first followed by the front and then fly down the nose wheel, not difficult.
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Old 1st Mar 2016, 03:56
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Fantom:---never flown the 744 or 77W have you? The A330 is indeed ok but wonderful? Nup

You want to impress the pax then grease on a Boeing not that anyone will care anyway.....

You could easily land the 744 and not realise you were on the ground until you heard the speedbrake motor noise as the lever moved aft. That has NEVER happened on any Airbus.....( apart from the fact the stupid little lever doesn't move!! )
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Old 2nd Mar 2016, 00:35
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Thanks for advice Gentlemen, I am looking forward to flying the thing.

How about the flare height? 40' sounds about right? Also, any significant difference between Conf 3/Full (apart from the initial pitch)

@Oicur12, re. sink rate control. That was exactly my impression on the jumpseat rides I did... Thanks for heads up!
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Old 2nd Mar 2016, 00:37
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Also, I find a difference between the 200 and the 300 so depends on which one you will fly.
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Old 2nd Mar 2016, 02:11
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The -300 only. What are the differences in handling between these 2?
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Old 3rd Mar 2016, 00:44
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Been a while since I flew a 300 but always found the 200 more reliable. slight check and it lands itself.

300 appears to over flare and float more easily, its pitch rate seems less easily controlled in the flare.

Or maybe its just that I gave up glue sniffing when I started flying 200's?
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Old 3rd Mar 2016, 08:40
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Or maybe its just that I gave up glue sniffing when I started flying 200's?
Quite plausible explanation...

Gave it a go today, works as advertised. Love it!

P.S. I meant the 330, mot glue sniffing

Last edited by Sidestick_n_Rudder; 3rd Mar 2016 at 11:52.
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Old 3rd Mar 2016, 13:12
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Love your post because . . . .

I saw this ages ago on youtube and if you gaze at it again and again you can get the picture without dying of standing out in the cold . . .

I think its a great vid anyway - see what you think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lowrM-780tg

It the vid, runs on to show 8 cool landings at Manchester England you might wanna hang around for those too.


With thanks to and Courtesy of youtube and Mr Simon Lowe Camera man.
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Old 3rd Mar 2016, 20:47
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nlzsYkmwtOc

This video is very educational if you find the second bogie a little "thumpy". Flew the -200 for a few years, found that gently releasing back-pressure as soon as the first wheels touch will "roll" the front bogie down. At least the theory is that de-rotating a bit gives that second set of wheels less distance to fall when the bogie tilt actuator "snaps" them forward. The "snap" often happens when the brakes kick in, so adding back pressure back in as that occurs to hold the weight of the airplane on the wings helps too. Also delaying reverse selection until the second wheels are down (or at least after derotating a bit) helps too.

So at 30 ish feet check the stick back gently and let it roll on as others have said. At touchdown release a bit of pressure to let the nose (and second bogie) derotate slightly. "Catch" the nose with a slight bit of back pressure as you start in with reverse idle. Land the second set of wheels, pull the rest of your reverse, and use positive back pressure to slowly let the nose down. A long 3-count or so should be about right to let the nose wheel down. Fly it to level pitch, and then "hold it off" there till it sets down the last foot or so on its own.

Works 1 in 10 times perfectly in the -200. Enjoy the plane, it really is lovely to fly, especially with manual thrust if your outfit allows it. Nothing like kicking back over the ocean and eating a bad, leathery steak on a real table. Very comfortable airplane.
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Old 3rd Mar 2016, 23:57
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I wish I hadn't read this now... Badly wanting to fly the A330, it sounds like an absolute treat

N.b. 17 year old aspiring pilot without a clue (anymore) how to get there
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Old 4th Mar 2016, 00:39
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Maybe I'm just a gash handler but I find 30 or 40' radio is way too high to start the flare in a 330-200. It does have a big ground effect, as such it's very easy to overcook the flare and then find it has just levelled off at whatever height you flared it, and then you have to dip the nose again and get a big secondary flare and whammo.

I prefer to wait for 20' radio call plus a fraction of a second, GENTLE back pressure and most important go back to your what your PPL instructor told you and LOOK OUT THE WINDOW towards the horizon at the far end of the runway to make sure the damn thing is slowly descending and not levelling off at 10'.

As you get used to it you'll get to know the feeling when ground effect kicks in and at that moment you should just about be able to release the stick back to neutral. It's just finesse after that.

Then as others have said, wait for TWO bumps on the main gear, your hand should be neutral at that moment, and then you may need a final bit of positive back stick to stop the nose gear from crashing down and ruining your beautiful main gear touchdown.

That's my .02 worth on how to get a greaser out of it but do also remember it's tough as an old boot, so if it's gusty or short runway then you can positively drive it just about all the way onto the runway and no harm will be done.
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Old 5th Mar 2016, 14:57
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Originally Posted by EK77WNCL View Post
I wish I hadn't read this now... Badly wanting to fly the A330, it sounds like an absolute treat

N.b. 17 year old aspiring pilot without a clue (anymore) how to get there
My dear Chap or young lady, There is no indicator as to your gender.

Simply go along to your nice , warm and friendly, local flying school - there is one near you. How you get there is all part of the parcel. When you arrive - you should have a warm and supporting and informative . . greeting (if not go and find another one - where they seem to be on your side, this is important)

From there on they will guide you towards the Private Pilots Licence
(PPL) you can also make enquiries on here but you never know who you are talking to on the internet - it could be a pilot or a pudding maker and you could get into conversations that last forever . . . with nothing being done . . .

While you are at your flying club, go as often as is physically possible, as often as you want to.

Keep your ears open to those who are going through the stages of becoming a professional pilot - if you want that for yourself. If you want to have a Private Pilots Licence and fly around at weekends then you will have arrived at your destination and all you have to do is the training consisting of about 9 papers or more to pass but they will teach you with books and groundschool and of course, the flying training itself. Depending on:- the amount of money in your bank - your wages or inheritance - the weather, your general health and availability - you could get the PPL in a year. You don`t have to pay in one lump sum, you can pay as you fly.

No real sweat. At that time you might like to ask the RAF if they want to take you on as a career officer as a pilot. You can ask them anytime after you are 17 and a half (I think). If you go to a verrry quiet club with not much happening - you may not get the electric buzz of what is going on with the world of pilot training and jobs be it for airlines or the RAF or Night Mail or whatever area of flying. so, hopefully, try to be part of a flying club consisting of young `uns like yourself who are thirsting for knowledge and dead keen to get in and up flying. Good luck. It all starts with you finding a cool club. You can also join the Air Training Corps (ATC) but you may find that you rarely know when or where you are going to fly next. Apart from if you are physically blind or too disabled to fly - steer away from those who negate your efforts of becoming a pilot from the outset. You will need determination - because you want to do it but the weather and other factors cause delay - a lot of waiting around. Dropping a paper or two.

You really need to `want to do it` to offset, twinges of fear in the beginning, or possible airsickness - none of which are always going to happen - aaaaand . . .
m o n e y. You might get away with paying about 7 grand to 8 grand for the whole PPL - you can get the same licence for 11 grand to 13 grand if you go swanning off solo every 5 minutes during your course (like one chap did).

So - stick to the curriculum - it was designed well, in order to teach you to fly.

The instructors will help you through everything.

Go to your flying club - make enquiries with the RAF - you are at the best age (sigh - I wish I was 17 again . . ) and I and everybody on here would like to wish you the very best of luck and - go and do it - its such fun - you can`t believe how fun it is. It is also highly addictive.

Watch your airspeed!

With the PPL you can fly whenever the flying club is open and the weather is within limits - (you will learn how to determine whether or not the weather is within limits and you will hopefully become a very critical meteorologist too) - and take your friends up flying, or go on your own.

From the PPL, if you want to go Commercial - i.e., become a money earning pilot, you need to get a Commercial Licence (CPL). This needs more studies - more flying (ooops, and more money). (The Commercial studies are along the same lines as the PPL ones - (so its not like changing from Psychology to Astrophysics) - some flying colleges allow you to do the Airline Transport Pilots Licence (ATPL) studies at the same time - or at least shortly after the CPL studies/exams. Pilot usually go for the Airline Transport Pilots Licence as (in Europe at least) - I don`t think you can fly for an airline with only a Commercial Pilots Licence but you can carry parachutists, take up photographers (aerial photography) or quite a few little things which demand only a "single pilot" - flying instruction is one of them. To become an instructor you would have to complete an instructors course and then you can teach people to fly a most rewarding occupation.

Whatever you do in aviation will invariably end up with an exam.

With the ATPL all done and dusted you can then apply to the airlines and fly multi-crew - entrepreneurial skills with getting your foot in the door would be an advantageous quality - networking and contacts are sssooo important at this stage. Or you can simply apply and get accepted, good luck as the closing date for most big airline application campaigns is weeks away and yet the application process usually closes in 24 hours. - There are that many applicants, so you have to have your finger on the pulse at that stage in your career. But don`t worry about any of that until you have finished your studies.

There is an up and coming world shortage of pilots - whether that is true or not, there are many pilots, freshly qualified who cannot seem to get a job AND there are many pilots, freshly qualified who have got a job - YOU DECIDE which one you want to be - employed or looking. The top skill in being a pilot is a high level of commonsense and a realisation that flight safety is and always will be paramount. there it is - off you go Come back when you've got your licence.

Last edited by Natstrackalpha; 8th Mar 2016 at 15:15.
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