Improper stall/spin departure recovery technique
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Improper stall/spin departure recovery technique
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Here a very good graphic illustration of typical wrong instinctive stall/spin recovery attempt, which leads to stall/spin LOC at low altitude with fatal results.
This is to show that proper recovery can only be attempted with proper training instilling proper control reactions which are counter intuitive and need to be drilled and practiced to give the necessary proficiency and skills to avoid or recover an unusual situation.
A/c seems to be an ultralight, though It applies to whatever A/C , the laws of physics unlike regulations cannot be
ignored or broken.
This is the typical LOC scenario, a chain reaction from flight at the back side of the power curve ( look at a/c instability );
Speed too low, nose high, no attempt to lower the nose, full power and lack of coordination, leading to a stall/spin right wing low departure with improper recovery technique aileron instead of rudder. ( Instinctive wrong reaction to counter right roll with left aileron input, look at right aileron deflected downwards at 0:29), exacerbating right wing drag and and AoA.
This is it, when will proper unusual attitudes issues be addressed properly with in inflight exercises with proper a/c and instructors and not in sim or in the classroom??
Should be absolutely mandatory
Here a very good graphic illustration of typical wrong instinctive stall/spin recovery attempt, which leads to stall/spin LOC at low altitude with fatal results.
This is to show that proper recovery can only be attempted with proper training instilling proper control reactions which are counter intuitive and need to be drilled and practiced to give the necessary proficiency and skills to avoid or recover an unusual situation.
A/c seems to be an ultralight, though It applies to whatever A/C , the laws of physics unlike regulations cannot be
ignored or broken.
This is the typical LOC scenario, a chain reaction from flight at the back side of the power curve ( look at a/c instability );
Speed too low, nose high, no attempt to lower the nose, full power and lack of coordination, leading to a stall/spin right wing low departure with improper recovery technique aileron instead of rudder. ( Instinctive wrong reaction to counter right roll with left aileron input, look at right aileron deflected downwards at 0:29), exacerbating right wing drag and and AoA.
This is it, when will proper unusual attitudes issues be addressed properly with in inflight exercises with proper a/c and instructors and not in sim or in the classroom??
Should be absolutely mandatory
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The problem is in this case was that they were too low to be able to recover no matter how good the pilot's spin recovery training was.
They were too low and too slow, which goes back to poor piloting training and/or lack of experience.
I watched the video quite a few time. At the 8 second point in the video he applies full right aileron coupled with what looks like full right rudder with what appears full up elevator, then the pilot unloads the aircraft at the 9 second point, still with full right rudder and aileron, then at the 10 second point, the pilot again applies full up elevator resulting in the aircraft going into an unrecoverable spin because of the low altitude.
From what saw on the video, it was a pilot induced spin. Now If it was accidental or not I don’t know. However, if the pilot had proper training, knew how to induce a spin and then recover, it would more of a case of suicide rather than an accident.
So in my opinion, the probable cause was an accidental spin due to poor pilot training and lack of experience. But before I would positively state that, I would need to know the pilot’s experience, total time in type, total time and training records.
A damn shame no matter how one looks at it.
They were too low and too slow, which goes back to poor piloting training and/or lack of experience.
I watched the video quite a few time. At the 8 second point in the video he applies full right aileron coupled with what looks like full right rudder with what appears full up elevator, then the pilot unloads the aircraft at the 9 second point, still with full right rudder and aileron, then at the 10 second point, the pilot again applies full up elevator resulting in the aircraft going into an unrecoverable spin because of the low altitude.
From what saw on the video, it was a pilot induced spin. Now If it was accidental or not I don’t know. However, if the pilot had proper training, knew how to induce a spin and then recover, it would more of a case of suicide rather than an accident.
So in my opinion, the probable cause was an accidental spin due to poor pilot training and lack of experience. But before I would positively state that, I would need to know the pilot’s experience, total time in type, total time and training records.
A damn shame no matter how one looks at it.
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So in my opinion, the probable cause was an accidental spin due to poor pilot training and lack of experience.
http://imgur.com/a/q9oYM#0
#1: Ailerons neutral, right rudder and up elevator - exactly how you enter a snap roll or spin.
#2: Rudder neutral, left aileron and slight up elevator.
#3: Rudder neutral, left aileron and more up elevator.
If at the first moment the pilot lost control they put the proper recovery inputs in I don't think they'd recover. Shouldn't have been flying like that down low.
I cant help but notice the full flaps on what appears to be takeoff/ crosswind... the other control inputs didnt help but i think this may have been the first link in the chain. full flaps, slow climb, more elevator to climb, less speed, ailerons ineffective so more rudder applied, and the final on/off/on with the full up elevator seals the deal.
One of my flying instructors told me when I was a solo pilot and before PPL that I was to "practice stall, spin, crash and burn - and you do this on your own."
(He was joking, I hasten to add.)
(He was joking, I hasten to add.)
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Doesn't matter why he spun in....its that
he had insufficient height above the hard
stuff to effect any sort of recovery - let
alone a safe one.
From what I saw on the vid he had large
right rudder, up elevator, and in a (what I
believe to be) climbing turn. All a perfect
set up for a spin entry.
Also I see there was no basic instinctive
opposite rudder from the incipient to the
impact - though it looks like he'd relaxed
the elevator. But probably he didn't have
time to even **** himself.
Reckon he overestimated the effect of
the slats.
he had insufficient height above the hard
stuff to effect any sort of recovery - let
alone a safe one.
From what I saw on the vid he had large
right rudder, up elevator, and in a (what I
believe to be) climbing turn. All a perfect
set up for a spin entry.
Also I see there was no basic instinctive
opposite rudder from the incipient to the
impact - though it looks like he'd relaxed
the elevator. But probably he didn't have
time to even **** himself.
Reckon he overestimated the effect of
the slats.
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I think avoiding the power lines was the a factor and full flaps didn't help either.
However, I think the pilot was trying to rudder round the turn, repeatedly applying right rudder and left aileron.
Notice how the aircraft nods politely at 0:09 before the final aft elevator input ends the game.
I was always taught minimum 30 degrees of bank. That way you have less temptation to rudder round the turn and you get a rate of descent which is cured by levelling the wings rather than a spin.
However, I think the pilot was trying to rudder round the turn, repeatedly applying right rudder and left aileron.
Notice how the aircraft nods politely at 0:09 before the final aft elevator input ends the game.
I was always taught minimum 30 degrees of bank. That way you have less temptation to rudder round the turn and you get a rate of descent which is cured by levelling the wings rather than a spin.
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So in my opinion, the probable cause was an accidental spin due to poor pilot training and lack of experience. But before I would positively state that, I would need to know the pilot’s experience, total time in type, total time and training records.
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Seat slip?
Based on the attempt to climb and the full flap, and the gusty conditions I am going to throw my hat in with "failed go-around" maneuver.
Avoiding the lines shouldn't be an issue as you can hear other aircraft and the clip is obviously shot from an aerodrome.
It looks to me like possibly a seat which slid back... maybe a passenger was making the rudder inputs??
Avoiding the lines shouldn't be an issue as you can hear other aircraft and the clip is obviously shot from an aerodrome.
It looks to me like possibly a seat which slid back... maybe a passenger was making the rudder inputs??
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Ailerons neutral, right rudder and up elevator - exactly how you enter a snap roll or spin.
I'm with Con-Pilot on the possible cause.
When young and foolish, I tried it one day (at 8,000 ft) with a 140HP Cherokee to see if it could be spun that way if no other, and very nearly died of fright in the resulting almost vertical, spiral dive at Vmax + God knows what, and pull-out. It says a lot for the Piper build quality that the aircraft stayed in one piece.
