Airbus sees the light - but will their clients?
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In the days of FBW and flight control logic are you *ever* really doing manual flying?
If you stay inside the middle of the envelope it's fairly straight forward. The edge of the envelope is a different matter and often approached, or breached, unexpectedly. That's were the confusion and fear factors complicate the situation.
If you stay inside the middle of the envelope it's fairly straight forward. The edge of the envelope is a different matter and often approached, or breached, unexpectedly. That's were the confusion and fear factors complicate the situation.
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Well on the Airbus the FAC, ELAC and SEC combo's are doing a lot of dirty work for you, like trimming in normal/alternate law and showing you the limits of the envelope. Still doesn't change the fact that it's a good thing to be able to bike around raw data based on pitch and thrust.
Practicing it will increase your capacity and awareness. The result will be familiarity and comfort with hand flying in normal circumstances, so when things get a bit more serious you'll simply have more capacity to deal with it and won't put yourself in the position of forgetting the pure basics. I find that a worthy cause, even if it's an Airbus.
One side-effect in the industry might well be that experience starts getting valued again. Might serve some Turboprop drivers some justice in the marketplace.
Practicing it will increase your capacity and awareness. The result will be familiarity and comfort with hand flying in normal circumstances, so when things get a bit more serious you'll simply have more capacity to deal with it and won't put yourself in the position of forgetting the pure basics. I find that a worthy cause, even if it's an Airbus.
One side-effect in the industry might well be that experience starts getting valued again. Might serve some Turboprop drivers some justice in the marketplace.
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Stilton - You don't say which part of the earth you operate in but you can take it from me that there are plenty of TMAs in Europe and the USA where it is possible to overload the PNF with constant hdg, alt and config changes plus check lists. To not use the autopilot under these circumstances is just plain stupid, as it is to dump the auto pilot as soon as anything goes wrong.
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Command the Software and The Airplane
Ya, but... With the current generation transport aircraft, both AB and Boeing, just how manual can you get? That computer is still monitoring everything and it cannot just be turned off. Rudder and stick time on big airplanes is a very good thing, but in the end, the drivers must have absolute mastery of the controlling software. The truly effective pilot must know that damn automation almost as well as the engineers that wrote it. Do they? A few of the interested and better trainers may, but I'd guess that the vast majority of the operating line staff do not. I think they should. Improved training is expensive, but if we are to maintain the improved safety records of the last decade, it just has to be done. Someone on that airplane must the the knowledge and ability to command those damn computers and make the airplane fly the way s/he wants it to fly. 
If not, 
.
If not, .
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You've gone way over board.
There's a reason Navies still teach kids how to use a sextant and they are expected to practice it from time to time. Sure, it's tradition, a bit of nostalgia, but they must be prepared if, for whatever reason, the electronics aren't available. There's no pulling up to a petrol station for directions.
Pilots must be comfortable to carry on should all electronics go Tango Uniform. The only way to obtain and retain proficiency with a manual skill set is to use it.
There's a reason Navies still teach kids how to use a sextant and they are expected to practice it from time to time. Sure, it's tradition, a bit of nostalgia, but they must be prepared if, for whatever reason, the electronics aren't available. There's no pulling up to a petrol station for directions.
Pilots must be comfortable to carry on should all electronics go Tango Uniform. The only way to obtain and retain proficiency with a manual skill set is to use it.
Originally Posted by Drfaust
Practicing it will increase your capacity and awareness. The result will be familiarity and comfort with hand flying in normal circumstances, so when things get a bit more serious you'll simply have more capacity to deal with it and won't put yourself in the position of forgetting the pure basics. I find that a worthy cause, even if it's an Airbus.
the drivers must have absolute mastery of the controlling software. The truly effective pilot must know that damn automation almost as well as the engineers that wrote it. Do they? A few of the interested and better trainers may, but I'd guess that the vast majority of the operating line staff do not.
Parabellum, the answer is US, Europe, S America and East Asia. Many of the busiest airports in the world.
I understand what you are saying but the PNF should be able to handle mode control changes, talk on the radio and all the other normal duties that accompany that role. Some airports are more demanding than others and use of the autopilot can help lower the workload. Problem is when it starts being a habit and you can't cope without it.
How would you cope with an autopilot failure for instance
I understand what you are saying but the PNF should be able to handle mode control changes, talk on the radio and all the other normal duties that accompany that role. Some airports are more demanding than others and use of the autopilot can help lower the workload. Problem is when it starts being a habit and you can't cope without it.
How would you cope with an autopilot failure for instance
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Ya But Nothing No Fly Zone,
Controlling the computers is nothing and most children can do it. Handling the aircraft is the fail safe, one which we are sorely lacking in through this industry.
Controlling the computers is nothing and most children can do it. Handling the aircraft is the fail safe, one which we are sorely lacking in through this industry.
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How would you cope with an autopilot failure for instance
(Had a lightening strike coming out of KL one evening, that knocked out the auto pilot!).
What No Fly Zone is saying is what I said in my first post, it is very important to know the capabilities of the auto system, what I should have added was, 'but not at the expense of hand flying experience'
I agree PB,
Thing is, nearly all of the airports I fly in and out of are very busy and take all of your attention. There are very few 'quiet ones' if your PNF can't handle it and needs you to use the autopilot at the expense of your limited available manual flying there's a problem with their abilities. That's what needs to be fixed.
Anyway, best wishes.
Thing is, nearly all of the airports I fly in and out of are very busy and take all of your attention. There are very few 'quiet ones' if your PNF can't handle it and needs you to use the autopilot at the expense of your limited available manual flying there's a problem with their abilities. That's what needs to be fixed.
Anyway, best wishes.
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position of forgetting the pure basics. I find that a worthy cause, even if it's an Airbus.
Hit the nail on the head. The more hand flying you do, the better you get at monitoring, not to mention interpreting/recovering the situation if it all goes suddenly pear-shaped
Hit the nail on the head. The more hand flying you do, the better you get at monitoring, not to mention interpreting/recovering the situation if it all goes suddenly pear-shaped
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Airbus sees the light - but will their clients? It will be a hard sell to convince Airbus operators to allow their crews to practice hand flying; particularly in Asia and the Middle East. Full marks to the manufacturer for trying, though.
From Flight International 17-23 June. Captain Martin Mahoney, Emirates senior vice president flight training, was reported as stating: “Emirates does not want its pilots to practice manual flying with paying passengers on board, so they give them simulator time to do it. In addition to the normal twice yearly line proficiency and operational proficiency check sessions, Emirates gives all its pilots a manual flying training hour in the simulator every six months”
In other words, two hours a year in a simulator where the automatics are turned off and the pilot flies by hand. Two hours a year will make a pilot proficient at manual flying- and that only in a simulator? Pull the other leg.
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Emirates does not want its pilots to practice manual flying with paying passengers on board
Given the choice between Emirates or a 70 year old DC3 I will take the latter, thank you very much. At least the Dak drivers know how to use stick, rudder & throttles - there's no automation to do it for them!
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The point is:
Some companies clearly state they don`t want you to fly manually.
Others don`t say that , but if you have a QAR event you are punished. So nobody takes the risk (Asia).
As simple as that.
Some companies clearly state they don`t want you to fly manually.
Others don`t say that , but if you have a QAR event you are punished. So nobody takes the risk (Asia).
As simple as that.
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On the other hand though, the truth is that even in any non-FBW airliner with hydraulic or hydraulically-assisted controls, the pilots are still always at one remove from the surfaces in a purely physical sense. Such systems also transparently alter the control input to deflection ratio depending on factors such as airspeed and altitude.
Overall, I agree that increased emphasis on hand-flying skills should be a positive step, regardless.
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True that. FDM is not supposed to be a An element to be used for punitive actions. Airlines should understand the need to change the trend and emphasize on pilot skills otherwise there is a latent threat growing within every airline that will God forbid strike one day.