Fast Engine Run-ups
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Fast Engine Run-ups
Several Chinese airports have notes on the Jeppesen charts stating that Fast Engine Run-ups are not allowed. Perhaps I should know, but I am not familiar with what this is. Anything to do with engine icing procedures?
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DANGER
At Anchorage International several bagage trollies were flung through plate glass windows, at idle engine speed due to ICE=SLIPPERY=NO FRICTION
TAXY only at idle and make wide turns and use brakes with CAUTION
I have landed at Palmer and Talkeetna on slick runways and not ground looped and then again I sometimes have and ended up knee deep in powder snow
On a big run in my maule rocket you can drag the wheels on the summer mooraine runway strips,
In winter You cant run up on skis PERIOD.
In fact you cant do very much on skis except keep it straight and try to get off before the edge of the lake and shut to ilde as soon as you touch..
They have a saying in my Alaskan Airmen's handbook
Expect the unexpected.
QUOTE
A PPL with 150-200 hours of time will have little trouble adapting to Alaskan summers with 24 hours of daylight,
however winter is a total different ballgame
TAXY only at idle and make wide turns and use brakes with CAUTION
I have landed at Palmer and Talkeetna on slick runways and not ground looped and then again I sometimes have and ended up knee deep in powder snow
On a big run in my maule rocket you can drag the wheels on the summer mooraine runway strips,
In winter You cant run up on skis PERIOD.
In fact you cant do very much on skis except keep it straight and try to get off before the edge of the lake and shut to ilde as soon as you touch..
They have a saying in my Alaskan Airmen's handbook
Expect the unexpected.
QUOTE
A PPL with 150-200 hours of time will have little trouble adapting to Alaskan summers with 24 hours of daylight,
however winter is a total different ballgame
Last edited by ZAZ; 5th Dec 2013 at 05:57. Reason: typo
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Hmmm. Odd. I always do a run-up on skis. Much as I do when flying on floats.
So you just hop in the plane and take off first flight of the day with no run-up?
That aside, I think you've nailed down the prize for non-sequitur of the decade.
Oh, and FWIW, the only baggage carts I know of being blown thru windows at Anchorage were when the Asiana whale tried to mate with the Ilyushin. While it's true that the Asian Captain *claimed* the throttles were at idle, the CVR revealed that the throttles were pushed up far enough to get a takeoff configuration warning. Not sure how far that is in a 747, but I'm pretty sure it's a ways from idle.
So you just hop in the plane and take off first flight of the day with no run-up?
That aside, I think you've nailed down the prize for non-sequitur of the decade.
Oh, and FWIW, the only baggage carts I know of being blown thru windows at Anchorage were when the Asiana whale tried to mate with the Ilyushin. While it's true that the Asian Captain *claimed* the throttles were at idle, the CVR revealed that the throttles were pushed up far enough to get a takeoff configuration warning. Not sure how far that is in a 747, but I'm pretty sure it's a ways from idle.
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I would suggest it's high power engine runs - above idle or breakaway - for test or other purposes (e.g. crossbleed start).
But what do I know? I'm just an ex-controller who has to write stuff like that these days.
But what do I know? I'm just an ex-controller who has to write stuff like that these days.
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Possibly they mean the 30 second engine runs in icing conditions and crossbleed starts, etc but I don't know.
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How much of a useful reply did you expect from people most of whom haven't done a run-up (fast ot slow) in years? I haven't done one since 2006. You, presumably, don't do any either, so what do you care "fast runups" are?
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No Run-Up on Skis?
I've never flown anything (except myself) on skis. If a run-up is possible, how does one go about it? Toss out a couple of anchors? Tie the aircraft to an edge marker? On a more serious note, justs what ARE the alternatives to a high RPM run-up (assuming a piston engine and a prop that cannot be feathered). How does one 'prove' the engine and/or mags in the real world? Thanks.
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If you're operating from a lake, generally that gives you enough room to push the throttle up to 1700 or so and do a mag check. If not on a lake, just use whatever you're planning on using for a runway, if it's long enough to take off on skis, it's almost certainly going to give you adequate space to do a sliding run up.
Unless you're on extremely hard slippery conditions, idle RPM is usually not enough to keep you moving. If you let the skis sit in one place for 30 seconds or so, they will freeze to the snow requiring considerable power to break free. Chances are good you can do a runup without sliding, then power up a bit more to break free.
Anyone who says you can't run up on skis, period, probably hasn't actually flown skis.
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Your presumption is of course wrong. However, in the interest of the particular subject, I will give examples. I have done many runups in small piston aircraft over the years but ignoring that as this is an international airport in China we are talking about, I'll just talk turbines.
In the past 15 years, I have done quite a few engine runs on turboprops with Allison engines with coming out of maintenance ranging from several minutes to a half hour sustained run a couple of times. This could be after finding a bit of metal contamination or a valve housing replacement, etc.
On some PT-6 aircraft, it was procedure for autofeather check on the first flight of the day. I did several on JT-8D aircraft on delivery and pickup flights for C-checks. Things such as timing engine acceleration or for various other reasons. Even on an aircraft with the type of engine you operate, a PW-100, I did one for maintenance personnel after a fumes in cockpit situation we had. This was done to try to replicate the situation suspected to be from the air conditioning system.
On jets in winter ops we regularly do engine runs for 30 seconds prior to takeoff during ground icing conditions as per SOP as well, if we are on the ground for a significant period of time under such conditions. I have been on at least two types of jets where crossbleed starts were done which involves running up the operating engine to get the required duct pressure to start the other engine. Many airports specifically require you to ask ATC prior to doing this(and it is a good idea anywhere). As an interesting note, one time we cancelled a flight on a 737 as we did not want to do a crossbleed start on a slippery ramp during freezing rain.
My last engine run was in the last 30 days in snowy conditions on the runway prior to takeoff roll.
Because of this type of stuff, I have asked the question I asked.
And even if I had not done one in a long time such as yourself, I like to increase my knowledge. You should too.
Last edited by JammedStab; 13th Dec 2013 at 07:47.
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Originally Posted by JammedStab
I like to increase my knowledge. You should too.
You're a hard man to keep up with. First, you're having issues with the ILS in Anchorage, then you're doing maintenance runs on a PW100, then you're having crossbleed issues in a 737 on icy ramps in China....
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Great, we finally agree on something. Help me increase my knowledge by finally telling me what you fly and where. This is at least the fourth time I'm asking you such a simple question.
You're a hard man to keep up with. First, you're having issues with the ILS in Anchorage, then you're doing maintenance runs on a PW100, then you're having crossbleed issues in a 737 on icy ramps in China....
You're a hard man to keep up with. First, you're having issues with the ILS in Anchorage, then you're doing maintenance runs on a PW100, then you're having crossbleed issues in a 737 on icy ramps in China....
