Kathmandu operation with atr72 or turboprops
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Kathmandu operation with atr72
Dear Aviators,
We only recently started operating to Kathmandu with ATR72s. As we don't have any previous experience operating on this airfield with turboprops, i would highly appreciate if i can get some local knowledge..
Spcly, people who are operating with atr72 or 42 or even any other multi turboprops..
If any one out there kind enough to share their company SOP of Kathmandu operation would be highly appreciated. for example dep 02/20, missed app 02/20, any load penalty for 02 dep, your acceleration alt, climb speed so on..
As i said at the beginning, local experience can help us a lot to make safer operation..
We only recently started operating to Kathmandu with ATR72s. As we don't have any previous experience operating on this airfield with turboprops, i would highly appreciate if i can get some local knowledge..
Spcly, people who are operating with atr72 or 42 or even any other multi turboprops..
If any one out there kind enough to share their company SOP of Kathmandu operation would be highly appreciated. for example dep 02/20, missed app 02/20, any load penalty for 02 dep, your acceleration alt, climb speed so on..
As i said at the beginning, local experience can help us a lot to make safer operation..
Last edited by arman737ng; 20th Nov 2013 at 14:21.
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Operating limitations for ATR72 out of Cat C Kathmandu
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Are you Management or just making a rudimentary piloting enquiry?
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ZFT:
A, B, C, and D.
One of the VOR approaches is for A and B only.
For those who are RNP AR qualified the airport got a lot better a year or two ago.
Isn't Kathmandu a Cat C Airfield?
One of the VOR approaches is for A and B only.
For those who are RNP AR qualified the airport got a lot better a year or two ago.
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For an ATR 72 the operation shouldn't be that difficult.
If you are landing at Night you can only land on runway 02. Landing on runway 20 would bring you close to the hills on the north end of the runway.
Also, if you are coming from west or east would make a big difference. You might need to hold quite a bit if a jet comes in for landing. So if you are on visual approach, you might need to hold at visual points. They are bit difficult to point out.
If you are arriving from east and in the morning hours be careful of the traffic departing towards the lukla region and for the mountain flights. the traffic flow can be quite a bit but you would have information. Since they is no radar, spotting traffic can be a bit tricky.
During afternoon and later in the day the traffic would be mostly towards the west and south east.
I might have a SOP from the national career. I might be able to share it with you.
But if you are coming to VNKT, you would be on IFR approach. and that would be the VOR/DME approach. Sometimes you have to get down 50ft below MDA to be able to spot the runway just because of the Haze or you can keep holding over simra. Especially during the oncoming winter season the fog can cover up the runway in minutes. so be prepared for holding and if required for a go around.
Other than that just follow the procedures on the approach plates. And keep calm it is not that difficult. Just the traffic can be too much in the area.
If you are landing at Night you can only land on runway 02. Landing on runway 20 would bring you close to the hills on the north end of the runway.
Also, if you are coming from west or east would make a big difference. You might need to hold quite a bit if a jet comes in for landing. So if you are on visual approach, you might need to hold at visual points. They are bit difficult to point out.
If you are arriving from east and in the morning hours be careful of the traffic departing towards the lukla region and for the mountain flights. the traffic flow can be quite a bit but you would have information. Since they is no radar, spotting traffic can be a bit tricky.
During afternoon and later in the day the traffic would be mostly towards the west and south east.
I might have a SOP from the national career. I might be able to share it with you.
But if you are coming to VNKT, you would be on IFR approach. and that would be the VOR/DME approach. Sometimes you have to get down 50ft below MDA to be able to spot the runway just because of the Haze or you can keep holding over simra. Especially during the oncoming winter season the fog can cover up the runway in minutes. so be prepared for holding and if required for a go around.
Other than that just follow the procedures on the approach plates. And keep calm it is not that difficult. Just the traffic can be too much in the area.
If your company is not obtaining properly approved performance data from a qualified provider of same, they are probably seriously in contravention of a whole bunch of Part 121 and ICAO rules.
PIDOOMA is not an acceptable means of compliance in these matters.
PIDOOMA is not an acceptable means of compliance in these matters.
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So best avoided by travellers in the meantime ?
You come here for your missed approach and engine out guidance?
Well, at least you're considering it I guess.
Well, at least you're considering it I guess.
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Are you Management or just making a rudimentary piloting enquiry?
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@underfire
thanks for your contribution.. much appreciated..
First of all i would like to clarify that i'm not one of the managements.
i never said i need the info to make an unsafe operation safe but a safe operation safer..
Its a mare personal interest not a company interest.. Just to see are they all doing the same.. For example we don't consider runway 02 for takeoff for engine out n high climb gradient. of course management is a lot concerned about the safety..
I would love to know more about the takeoff and climb profile from runway 02/20 with ATR72.. what is your acceleration altitude, single engine etc.. Descent profiles look pretty straight forward..
thanks again
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Terpster...Is this the Jepp tailored design?
I had interesting issues with the trees on final...
(the missed is a bit intimidating as well...)
Edit: The procedure that I designed has an EO missed, so it does not look like this. I would also be curious how they got 0.3RNP containment with that treeline jumping up on the sides on final....
Edit2: speed restriction of 170 kts, do not concur..
I had interesting issues with the trees on final...
(the missed is a bit intimidating as well...)
Edit: The procedure that I designed has an EO missed, so it does not look like this. I would also be curious how they got 0.3RNP containment with that treeline jumping up on the sides on final....
Edit2: speed restriction of 170 kts, do not concur..
Last edited by underfire; 25th Nov 2013 at 21:07.
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Underfire- The RNP 0.3 was incorporated and all the big boys(qatar, jet airways, thai, korean, etihad etc etc- they all wanted it with so many flights it made a lot of sense. They tried an ILS with an offset as well but that didnt work out) sat down at a seminar and with the help of airbus who invested a lot of know how into the program got it going. The equipment required for RNP approaches alone costed more than some of the domestic aircrafts used in nepal. But anyway, the picture you have is old. The trees are gone and the road jst at the final is a six lane highway now.
but major problem in ktm is at times power loss. The generators running the VORs has sometime lost power and went in-op.
Unique problems in KTM for sure.
but major problem in ktm is at times power loss. The generators running the VORs has sometime lost power and went in-op.
Unique problems in KTM for sure.
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Underfire:
Have you designed RNP AR approaches?
If not, speed limits are quite common because of wind effect on radius to fix (RF) turns.
The designers did a great job on this one by not having to use an RNP value of less than 0.30.
But, they also used RNP 0.30 for the first part of the missed approach, which makes it a "dual string" procedure; i.e., in addition to dual FMSes the airplane must have at least one IRU.
Have you designed RNP AR approaches?
If not, speed limits are quite common because of wind effect on radius to fix (RF) turns.
The designers did a great job on this one by not having to use an RNP value of less than 0.30.
But, they also used RNP 0.30 for the first part of the missed approach, which makes it a "dual string" procedure; i.e., in addition to dual FMSes the airplane must have at least one IRU.
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thanks Jack..the trees were a constraint, I am glad that was resolved, it was certainly an issue in the early days.
The power issue was one of the main reasons to justify access going to RNP AR..
The EO missed was another significant issue that was to be addressed, or weight/temp limits.
Could you send me a PM, I would like to correspond...
Yes terspter, I have significant experience with RNAP AR procedures, and yes, I did design RNP AR procedures for VNKT.
I also understand why the 170 kts speed restiction at that distance, with turns, and the altitude is a question.
The power issue was one of the main reasons to justify access going to RNP AR..
The EO missed was another significant issue that was to be addressed, or weight/temp limits.
Could you send me a PM, I would like to correspond...
Yes terspter, I have significant experience with RNAP AR procedures, and yes, I did design RNP AR procedures for VNKT.
I also understand why the 170 kts speed restiction at that distance, with turns, and the altitude is a question.