Over weight landing.
Joined: Oct 2012
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From: toofaraway
I think there was a 727 fatal accident which started when burning, or at least very hot, wheels/tyres were retracted leading to a major fire.
Why fly around?
Why fly around?
Last edited by toffeez; 16th March 2013 at 16:03.
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: PURPA
Keep the gear down. If not down extend them.
Consider burning off fuel and using the full length of the runway. Reason behind burning fuel is that you're gonna be coming with a lower speed.
For example,
VLS= 140 knots
kinetic enery of the airplane is 1/2 mV square
= 1/2 66,000 x (140x1.852) square = 2,218,461,907.2 joules
reduction of weight by 4 tons and speed by 5 knots
1/2 62,000 x (135x1.852) square = 1,937,810,012.4
Also, full lenght of runway must be used and reversers for breaking. Hope it helps. Cheers.
Consider burning off fuel and using the full length of the runway. Reason behind burning fuel is that you're gonna be coming with a lower speed.
For example,
VLS= 140 knots
kinetic enery of the airplane is 1/2 mV square
= 1/2 66,000 x (140x1.852) square = 2,218,461,907.2 joules
reduction of weight by 4 tons and speed by 5 knots
1/2 62,000 x (135x1.852) square = 1,937,810,012.4
Also, full lenght of runway must be used and reversers for breaking. Hope it helps. Cheers.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
From: PURPA
I think there was a 727 fatal accident which started when burning, or at least very hot, wheels/tyres were retracted leading to a major fire.
Why fly around?
Why fly around?
Severged hydraulic lines could cause leakage which is why it is SOP to keep the gear extended. The hydraulic fluid flash point it 400 degrees.
Flying and burning fuel or landing ASAP is a judgement call and it not based on just on factor alone.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,115
Likes: 86
From: England
“… when you suspect tire damage?”
What are your suspicions based on?
Don’t overreact, re-evaluate the situation.
Carefully consider your assumptions; avoid biased judgement based on false belief or hearsay.
Remember that aircraft systems and structures have reasonable protection against tyre failures or wheel damage.
What are your suspicions based on?
Don’t overreact, re-evaluate the situation.
Carefully consider your assumptions; avoid biased judgement based on false belief or hearsay.
Remember that aircraft systems and structures have reasonable protection against tyre failures or wheel damage.
Last edited by PEI_3721; 16th March 2013 at 18:14. Reason: font and size
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 255
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From: PURPA
Very valid point... The ground facilities can confirm if any tyre debris was found and the engineering from your airline can confirm if it's from your airline's airplane.
Like indigo, go air, indian airlines, kingfisher all use different manufacturers for their tyres....
Like indigo, go air, indian airlines, kingfisher all use different manufacturers for their tyres....
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 147
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From: Euroland
In my opinion the only time I would consider to make an overweight landing is when:
-QRH says land at nearest suitable airfield
-I'm on fire
-Pax with a serious medical condition
For just tire damage, wait it out in the hold.
And I suppose your gear will still be out and maybe even flaps as well if some debris hit them the wrong way, so the wait shouldn't be too long at that fuel flow
-QRH says land at nearest suitable airfield
-I'm on fire
-Pax with a serious medical condition
For just tire damage, wait it out in the hold.
And I suppose your gear will still be out and maybe even flaps as well if some debris hit them the wrong way, so the wait shouldn't be too long at that fuel flow
Last edited by Tom!; 17th March 2013 at 09:46.
Joined: Feb 1998
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,595
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From: Formerly of Nam
Overweight landings are permitted for 320 as there is no fuel-dumping device.
320 with suspected tyre damage only should only return after burn-off to MLW (64.5 or
66T). A fly-by will help in assessing if tyre(s) are in fact damaged or not, wx permitting.
If immediate return is required for a SECOND contingency (eg suspected tyre damage and
uncontrollable engine fire/cabin fire/medical emerg/extreme fuel leak etc) - its a command
judgement call.
I'd have every ice-cream truck out there I had to return overweight with busted tyre(s) and
an uncontrollable fire or leak, and use the closest longest piece of bichumen available.
320 with suspected tyre damage only should only return after burn-off to MLW (64.5 or
66T). A fly-by will help in assessing if tyre(s) are in fact damaged or not, wx permitting.
If immediate return is required for a SECOND contingency (eg suspected tyre damage and
uncontrollable engine fire/cabin fire/medical emerg/extreme fuel leak etc) - its a command
judgement call.
I'd have every ice-cream truck out there I had to return overweight with busted tyre(s) and
an uncontrollable fire or leak, and use the closest longest piece of bichumen available.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 39
From: Wanderlust
Any time the flight cannot be continued an overweight landing is in order. But if you have problem with the gear itself including tyre problem then weight should be reduced to lower Vapp because aircraft control after touch down is unknown factor. Lesser the speed better chance of pulling it off.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 502
Likes: 17
From: Dunnunda
A320 FCOM states implicitly that you may land overweight in case of diversion or abnormal. In this case, you have lost, at a minimum, 1/4 of your breaking potential.
So with that in mind, if you must land:
A) land on a long runway
B) Don't stuff it up.... No more than 360 fpm at touch down...
C) You may have other hydraulic problems. Be sure to have a good idea of your damage first.
Use the LDR for 1 brake released. If you suspect more damage, use 2 brakes released LDR.
Land, write off, go home, have a cold one.
So with that in mind, if you must land:
A) land on a long runway
B) Don't stuff it up.... No more than 360 fpm at touch down...
C) You may have other hydraulic problems. Be sure to have a good idea of your damage first.
Use the LDR for 1 brake released. If you suspect more damage, use 2 brakes released LDR.
Land, write off, go home, have a cold one.
Last edited by Bula; 17th March 2013 at 10:46.
