Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Tech Log
Reload this Page >

Over weight landing.

Tech Log The very best in practical technical discussion on the web

Over weight landing.

Old 16th Mar 2013, 15:04
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Utopia
Age: 46
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Over weight landing.

Is it advisable to carry out overweight landing on A320 when you suspect tire damage?
CMpilot1 is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2013, 15:08
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Banbury
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Is it advisable to carry out overweight landing at all??
Leftofcentre2009 is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2013, 15:15
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Why would you want to? Is the aircraft in need to be on the ground ASAP or do you have time to burn off the fuel?
Shaka Zulu is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2013, 15:43
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: farmm intersection, our ranch
Age: 57
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Or you can fly around for 4 hours in an airplane that may have sustained damage from the tire coming apart.
flyingchanges is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2013, 15:50
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The first question in this scenario would be: Did you retract the gear or not? Mostly not....
Takeoff53 is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2013, 16:02
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: toofaraway
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think there was a 727 fatal accident which started when burning, or at least very hot, wheels/tyres were retracted leading to a major fire.

Why fly around?

Last edited by toffeez; 16th Mar 2013 at 16:03.
toffeez is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2013, 16:21
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: PURPA
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Keep the gear down. If not down extend them.

Consider burning off fuel and using the full length of the runway. Reason behind burning fuel is that you're gonna be coming with a lower speed.

For example,

VLS= 140 knots

kinetic enery of the airplane is 1/2 mV square
= 1/2 66,000 x (140x1.852) square = 2,218,461,907.2 joules


reduction of weight by 4 tons and speed by 5 knots

1/2 62,000 x (135x1.852) square = 1,937,810,012.4


Also, full lenght of runway must be used and reversers for breaking. Hope it helps. Cheers.

vinayak is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2013, 16:24
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: PURPA
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think there was a 727 fatal accident which started when burning, or at least very hot, wheels/tyres were retracted leading to a major fire.

Why fly around?

Severged hydraulic lines could cause leakage which is why it is SOP to keep the gear extended. The hydraulic fluid flash point it 400 degrees.

Flying and burning fuel or landing ASAP is a judgement call and it not based on just on factor alone.
vinayak is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2013, 17:42
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: England
Posts: 988
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 1 Post
“… when you suspect tire damage?”

What are your suspicions based on?
Don’t overreact, re-evaluate the situation.
Carefully consider your assumptions; avoid biased judgement based on false belief or hearsay.
Remember that aircraft systems and structures have reasonable protection against tyre failures or wheel damage.

Last edited by PEI_3721; 16th Mar 2013 at 18:14. Reason: font and size
PEI_3721 is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2013, 17:52
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: PURPA
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Very valid point... The ground facilities can confirm if any tyre debris was found and the engineering from your airline can confirm if it's from your airline's airplane.

Like indigo, go air, indian airlines, kingfisher all use different manufacturers for their tyres....
vinayak is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2013, 09:04
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Uh... Where was I?
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It is agood question, and still unanswered
Microburst2002 is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2013, 09:18
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Third planet from the sun
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Is it advisable to carry out overweight landing on A320 when you suspect tire damage?
No, it's not.

It is agood question, and still unanswered
What about the yellow text in reply 7 then?
sabenaboy is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2013, 09:39
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Euroland
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
In my opinion the only time I would consider to make an overweight landing is when:
-QRH says land at nearest suitable airfield
-I'm on fire
-Pax with a serious medical condition

For just tire damage, wait it out in the hold.

And I suppose your gear will still be out and maybe even flaps as well if some debris hit them the wrong way, so the wait shouldn't be too long at that fuel flow

Last edited by Tom!; 17th Mar 2013 at 09:46.
Tom! is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2013, 10:14
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1998
Location: Formerly of Nam
Posts: 1,595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Overweight landings are permitted for 320 as there is no fuel-dumping device.

320 with suspected tyre damage only should only return after burn-off to MLW (64.5 or
66T). A fly-by will help in assessing if tyre(s) are in fact damaged or not, wx permitting.

If immediate return is required for a SECOND contingency (eg suspected tyre damage and
uncontrollable engine fire/cabin fire/medical emerg/extreme fuel leak etc) - its a command
judgement call.

I'd have every ice-cream truck out there I had to return overweight with busted tyre(s) and
an uncontrollable fire or leak, and use the closest longest piece of bichumen available.
Slasher is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2013, 10:25
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wanderlust
Posts: 3,403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Any time the flight cannot be continued an overweight landing is in order. But if you have problem with the gear itself including tyre problem then weight should be reduced to lower Vapp because aircraft control after touch down is unknown factor. Lesser the speed better chance of pulling it off.
vilas is online now  
Old 17th Mar 2013, 10:37
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Dunnunda
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 1 Post
A320 FCOM states implicitly that you may land overweight in case of diversion or abnormal. In this case, you have lost, at a minimum, 1/4 of your breaking potential.

So with that in mind, if you must land:

A) land on a long runway
B) Don't stuff it up.... No more than 360 fpm at touch down...
C) You may have other hydraulic problems. Be sure to have a good idea of your damage first.

Use the LDR for 1 brake released. If you suspect more damage, use 2 brakes released LDR.

Land, write off, go home, have a cold one.

Last edited by Bula; 17th Mar 2013 at 10:46.
Bula is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.