Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Tech Log
Reload this Page >

is TCAS required

Wikiposts
Search
Tech Log The very best in practical technical discussion on the web

is TCAS required

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 15th Dec 2012, 23:20
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Earth
Age: 41
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
is TCAS required

Im flying an airliner and I have a question which I couldn't find an official answer for:
When I have a malfunctioning TCAS on board and I look it up on the MEL, it says that one of the conditions to dispatch a flight with an inoperative TCAS system is that:
"Enroute or approach procedures do not require its use."

And the question is: does enroute or approach procedures or regulations require its use or not?
yonygg is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2012, 00:36
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I suggest that this will depend on what country/countries you are flying in as the rules may differ from place to place.

Your company may also have a view on this which may be more conservative than your national regulator. Best check with them.

Last edited by Roger Greendeck; 16th Dec 2012 at 00:36.
Roger Greendeck is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2012, 03:09
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 1A
Posts: 8,562
Received 76 Likes on 44 Posts
Our AIP says:

Aircraft must be fitted with a serviceable Mode A and Mode C, or Mode S, SSR transponder for operations as follows:
- All aircraft within classes A, B and C airspace, and any class of airspace at or above 10,000FT AMSL.
- All aircraft, except aircraft operating to the VFR which are not fitted with an engine driven electrical system capable of continuously powering a transponder, within Class E airspace below 10,000FT AMSL.
So the answer to your question, here at least, would be "enroute prcoedures do require it's use", therefore she's a No Go item.
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2012, 03:43
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 451
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Don't remember....Is TCAS required for PRM approaches?

Maybe someone knows....


Fly safe,

PantLoad
PantLoad is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2012, 04:11
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Above the Transition Level
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
TCAS and Transponders are two different systems with regards to the TCAS its all down to the airspace being entered, MEL and company policy.
If it fails down route it maybe that you can operate back if airspace and MEL allow but you'd need to get the ATC flightplan updated that you're no longer equipped with TCAS. Some MEL's will require the chief's approval.
ElitePilot is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2012, 04:29
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: In da north country
Age: 62
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I've had to take the long way around India several times, due to no TCAS. You have to check each countries rules and regs.
Willit Run is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2012, 04:57
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: earth
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
TCAS may be an MEL item but is not required under said governance, what is required mostly is your transponder so the other aircraft can recieve a solution.
grounded27 is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2012, 08:12
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: On your right Skipper
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think, like most said, it depends which country you operating into.

Unless you have the AIP of all the countries you are going to fly over, I don't think you can answer that question (in the flight deck).
pwned is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2012, 09:13
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
@grounded27, even that depends on your country of registration and operation. TCAS is a MEL item under european rules, however with a repair time of 10 days, except if operating into german airspace, then it is only three days without exemption.
Denti is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2012, 10:58
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Denti, has pointed out the big got'cha euro drivers face, as germany, is stricter than the other euro countries...
-but to convince ops you right, might take a few minutes of your time.
plain-plane is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2012, 09:36
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Can't remember
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I did a North Pacific crossing to SFO of all places, with TCAS inop. Checked all the regs at the time and there was no reason not to dispatch.
However, common sense dictates that you inform everyone along the way. That's what I did, including on first contact with SFO. That way they won't instruct a low level sidestep or position you too close to other traffic.
Still ended up with a little less sleep in the bunk though!
777boeings is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2012, 07:30
  #12 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Earth
Age: 41
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
is TCAS required

So if I don't have the AIP of the countries I'm flying to on board (which I certainly don't!), then it's an issue for the ops./dispatch department to check and decide wether the dispatch is legal or not??
yonygg is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2012, 08:11
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tamworth, UK / Nairobi, Kenya
Posts: 616
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So if I don't have the AIP of the countries I'm flying to on board (which I certainly don't!), then it's an issue for the ops./dispatch department to check and decide wether the dispatch is legal or not??
Who is responsible for a complete and thorough pre-flight?
darkroomsource is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2012, 08:17
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The AIPs should be part of your route manual. I know for sure they are in ours. And as said above, the PIC is responsible for flight preparation in most countries.
Denti is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2012, 08:49
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: England
Age: 61
Posts: 266
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The MEL should be tailored for your operation and should tell you in what airspace TCAS is required on your network. If your operator is unwilling to amend the MEL then get them to confirm, in writing, that TCAS is not required on your particular route. If they are unwilling to do so then don't go.
Don Coyote is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2012, 08:51
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: In Space
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
TCAS is also required for RVSM.
B737900er is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2012, 08:59
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gloucestershire
Age: 66
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Many years ago I had a Tristar down in Mexico with a flight back to the States. It was Easter Monday with a failed TCAS. So I spoke to an FAA official to see what could be done. After a brief disscusion he said to me "I am going to ask you one question to which you can only answer with a yes or a no". The said question "do you have TCAS fitted". The answer was of course "Yes". The said official then said that there was a percentage of the civil fleet that flew in the states in accordance with the relevant MEL but safety was increased as there was a larger number of the fleet with TCAS operating. Mind you that was back in the 90's
xtypeman is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2012, 09:19
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Delsey
Posts: 744
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
B737900er

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 67
TCAS is also required for RVSM.
Since when?
500 above is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2012, 10:17
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: GPS L INVALID
Posts: 580
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
TCAS must be fitted but can be inoperative, at least in Europe countries make their own rules whether ATC has to be informed or approval has to be obtained before flying through their airspace. Had the TCAS go bad in the 737 a few times flying across the Balkans and eastern Europe...
STBYRUD is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2012, 10:35
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: any town as retired.
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
still no answer

I can just see the AIP Library on the average wandering G550..... maxed out just on AIPs. (who keeps them up to date, and pays for the subscription.)

Happy Christmas.

Glf
Gulfstreamaviator is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.