Do you look at the end of the runway when landing?
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Do you look at the end of the runway when landing?
I never fully understood why.
Even in flight school, and even now in the early stages of my career, I look ahead of the runway, and the rest is feel, and instinct, and has been working well so far(touch wood).
I just never really look at the far end of the runway.
Is this odd?
Even in flight school, and even now in the early stages of my career, I look ahead of the runway, and the rest is feel, and instinct, and has been working well so far(touch wood).
I just never really look at the far end of the runway.
Is this odd?
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"End of the runway"? No.
"Down the runway"? Yes.
"A long way down the runway"? Yes.
"Down the runway"? Yes.
"A long way down the runway"? Yes.
Last edited by aerobat77; 11th Nov 2012 at 08:26.
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There are many places where mother earth has conspired to hide the end of the runway from sight. There are always many ways to skin the same cat, but it is an instinctive manoeuvre which can be introduced by rote and then refined with feel and dexterity, eventually one hopes. Still working on it.
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You have to look far enough so that the fast movement doesn't make difficult to assess height, but not so far that you lose depth perception.
Too close is "blurred"
Too far is like 2D, instead of 2D
Somewhere in the middle gives you good depth perception. I think I look like two or three center lines ahead, normally.
Too close is "blurred"
Too far is like 2D, instead of 2D
Somewhere in the middle gives you good depth perception. I think I look like two or three center lines ahead, normally.
][/quote]
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some good feedback. From my perspective and only in the fairly recent past I too was at the beginning of my career. I do look down the runway during the flare to give a good feel for the ROD from your peripheral vision. You will soon realise that if you have a landing which is a little firmer than you wanted or floats a bit 9 times out of 10 you cant remember looking down the runway. The result was caused because you were staring at the aiming point and therefore used your effective muscle memory to flare but could not refine that using the visual clues from your periphery. Another common cause of inconsistency is due to a inconsistent ROD in the final 100ft or so. If you target the nominal 700ft/min and flare from that the flare starts from a datum and thus is easier to gain consistency. If however next time you flare at the same datum but with only 500ft/min you can guess the result.
As I was always told, there are no new mistakes and by a training captain don't worry about what they in the back think just worry about what I think.
Well thats my thoughts but if that fails to help 50ft and close your eyes is good advice as well
As I was always told, there are no new mistakes and by a training captain don't worry about what they in the back think just worry about what I think.
Well thats my thoughts but if that fails to help 50ft and close your eyes is good advice as well
Last edited by bex88; 12th Nov 2012 at 07:12.
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Well thats my thoughts but if that fails to help 50ft and close your eyes is good advice as well
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I look out the side window.
Much better for height reference, and I get left/right drift reference, and I don't care how far down the runway I can see, nor do I care if the runway is sloped, or made of dirt or asphalt or grass.
(not actually the 'side' window, but about 45 degrees between ahead and the side)
Old instructor taught me that, much better for the flare, any size aircraft, critical in a tailwheel.
Much better for height reference, and I get left/right drift reference, and I don't care how far down the runway I can see, nor do I care if the runway is sloped, or made of dirt or asphalt or grass.
(not actually the 'side' window, but about 45 degrees between ahead and the side)
Old instructor taught me that, much better for the flare, any size aircraft, critical in a tailwheel.
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Landing flare is all about pitch attitude. It is the difference between the attitude you have before the flare and the one you input during the flare itself. The only way to see that difference visually is to look further down the runway. If you focus on the touchdown point you will be looking at a "moving target" and we all know how much harder they are to hit! That is the way I teach it in the sim and on line and this method seems to get the best results. The worst touchdowns come from a variable pitch attitude during the flare. Example would be too high a flare attitude at flare initiation, followed by reactively pushing forward on the column to correct. If you don't look further down the runway, flare attitude will be different every time, resulting in inconsistent landings.
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FCTM
Have none of you posters read your Boeing or Airbus FCTM? The very fact that you are even asking this question is very worrying.As a TRE, TRI, Instructor etc, if you are new to Jets, I will direct you to the FCTM.If you are new to type, I will direct you the FCTM.If you are new to big jets I will....well you get the point!
If you persist in staring at the touchdown zone below 50 feet radio altitude, you will be assisted in the flare OR hear the words "I have control..." You MUST look down the runway (three quarters is about right) as soon as you hear the "fifty" call either from the automatic callouts OR from the other guy, preferably just as the runway disappears under your nose, assuming you are on profile.The ONLY exceptions to this are
1. Low visibilty where the far end of the runway may not be visible.You should be either doing an autoland or if not available, a manual landing with a late AP disconnect (100 radio?) and use a very mechanical landing technique.....
2. Landing at Addis Ababa type runways where due to the runway contour, the other end of the runway disappears as you enter the flare...
The only reason I can think of why you are asking the question to start with is either you not a pilot, or have very low hours, or are poorly trained.
If you persist in staring at the touchdown zone below 50 feet radio altitude, you will be assisted in the flare OR hear the words "I have control..." You MUST look down the runway (three quarters is about right) as soon as you hear the "fifty" call either from the automatic callouts OR from the other guy, preferably just as the runway disappears under your nose, assuming you are on profile.The ONLY exceptions to this are
1. Low visibilty where the far end of the runway may not be visible.You should be either doing an autoland or if not available, a manual landing with a late AP disconnect (100 radio?) and use a very mechanical landing technique.....
2. Landing at Addis Ababa type runways where due to the runway contour, the other end of the runway disappears as you enter the flare...
The only reason I can think of why you are asking the question to start with is either you not a pilot, or have very low hours, or are poorly trained.
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As some one pointed out rightly, I begin with deep down the runway (not the end) and as the aircraft begins to flare, the sight get much closer and more of the peripheral factor i.e. utilizing the side vision to get better depth perception. Works wonders for me and hey you might have a different technique that works for you. All landings are good landings, if you can walk away from it 
Try this simple test.
Drive your car smoothly around a bend (curve) in the road looking just 10-30 m ahead at the edge of the road.
Then try the same but now looking 100-200 m ahead in the direction of the curve (where you want to be).
Notice that the car wants to go exactly where you are looking and steering commands are much more intuitive and smooth when you look far ahead?
Aircraft control and guidance is the same.
Spot the landing area close-in and you will plant the sucker right there.
Look a good distance down the runway before you flare to where you want to end up and your peripheral cues will ensure that you you have the best vertical rate and directional guidance to make that perfect touchdown and roll-out.
Your car and your aircraft will go to where you are looking.
Drive your car smoothly around a bend (curve) in the road looking just 10-30 m ahead at the edge of the road.
Then try the same but now looking 100-200 m ahead in the direction of the curve (where you want to be).
Notice that the car wants to go exactly where you are looking and steering commands are much more intuitive and smooth when you look far ahead?
Aircraft control and guidance is the same.
Spot the landing area close-in and you will plant the sucker right there.
Look a good distance down the runway before you flare to where you want to end up and your peripheral cues will ensure that you you have the best vertical rate and directional guidance to make that perfect touchdown and roll-out.
Your car and your aircraft will go to where you are looking.
Adam and Atlas, my thanks for the chortles you induced with your replies.