Knots are for boats!
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 274
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From: .
Why not measure in multiples of "Wales"? You often hear people/media describing places relative to the size of Wales (I recall Australian farms often being described as x times the size of Wales).
Your common or garden jet would travel approx 3 Wales/hr, a turboprop would be about 2 Wales/hr. Height could be measured in fractions of Wales's.
Just a thought.
Your common or garden jet would travel approx 3 Wales/hr, a turboprop would be about 2 Wales/hr. Height could be measured in fractions of Wales's.
Just a thought.
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Los Angeles, USA
I grew up in metric, but obviously comfortably use feet and knots in my flying. However, you often hear in t he UK and the US "I can't think in metres" and how they can't gage it. Exactly the same problem I have in feet - I can't gage a distance in it without first doing the conversion from meters.
But there's a simple solution for you guys and everyone could use meters tomorrow in the old "Farenheit"-belt of the world; Because you can all use yards, right? A yard is a meter!
But there's a simple solution for you guys and everyone could use meters tomorrow in the old "Farenheit"-belt of the world; Because you can all use yards, right? A yard is a meter!
Last edited by AdamFrisch; 10th July 2012 at 17:46.
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: engineer at large
I would like to see them dump the mag compass headings and magvar...
with grid north and GPS, the whole mag nomenclature for runways is a real pain, especially when it switches, and they re-name the runways....
with grid north and GPS, the whole mag nomenclature for runways is a real pain, especially when it switches, and they re-name the runways....
Joined: Aug 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 152
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From: Vendée
Prefer knots for flying. Although grew up with feet/inches/yards, the metric system is just fine--base ten arithmetic works every time!
Don't mind visibility in metric but I do prefer the FLs the way they are (in other words not in meters). For me it is just simpler to use. Always a bit of a thinking exercise when flying into or through China's airspace. Much easier now going through Russia's and I might be wrong about this, but it seems the controllers like it as well.
Don't mind visibility in metric but I do prefer the FLs the way they are (in other words not in meters). For me it is just simpler to use. Always a bit of a thinking exercise when flying into or through China's airspace. Much easier now going through Russia's and I might be wrong about this, but it seems the controllers like it as well.
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: France
Metric system
Uncle Fred, I am sure you must have seen it in Vendee also, the French, in the home of the metric system, have invented a new non-metric system of distance measurement - The Minute !
All over we see direction signs to McD, Intermarché, Leclerc etc "au feu a droite, 2mn" (at the traffic signal, turn right, 2minutes) although if anybody tried to achieve those timings they would suspect that, being patriotic, they must have asked Air France to calculate the 'distance'
daved
All over we see direction signs to McD, Intermarché, Leclerc etc "au feu a droite, 2mn" (at the traffic signal, turn right, 2minutes) although if anybody tried to achieve those timings they would suspect that, being patriotic, they must have asked Air France to calculate the 'distance'
daved
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,103
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From: Chabanais, France
RVR 300' ( 91 m ) wow that's way below CAT3B territory and I think you'd be
told "RVR 300 feet". Couldn't even takeoff with 300' RVR
Last edited by parabellum; 10th July 2012 at 20:26.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Joined: Jan 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 4,332
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From: England
Flew an aircraft many years ago where we uplifted fuel in litres, calculated it in kg, the main tanks were gauged in Imp gal, and the aux tanks in USG. My brain hurt. Having then flown for many years using runway lenth in metres, I moved to a company which used manuals direct from Boeing (this in the UK) and I had to start thinking in feet. Counterintuitive.
Joined: May 2006
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From: 2 m South of Radstock VRP
Isn't the whole point of a 345 triangle that it is devoid of the need for specific units of linear measurement? They could be in Millimeters or Cables (tenth of a nm) and still give the correct ratios for Mr Pythagoras's wonderful triangle.
Just wait until some brown job artillery wallah comes along and tries to convince you that Mils are better than Deg, Min, Sec of arc. You will then get the tedious explanation about a Metre being one ten-millionth of the meridion that passes through somewhere called Paris and how easy it is to pace it out on an OS map or NATO JOG chart. He (or possibly she these days) should be told that metres are too bloody small for anything horizontal and too big for anything vertical.
Just wait until some brown job artillery wallah comes along and tries to convince you that Mils are better than Deg, Min, Sec of arc. You will then get the tedious explanation about a Metre being one ten-millionth of the meridion that passes through somewhere called Paris and how easy it is to pace it out on an OS map or NATO JOG chart. He (or possibly she these days) should be told that metres are too bloody small for anything horizontal and too big for anything vertical.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 491
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From: Dorking
Yep.
Fun can still be had though. Surveyor friend asked me to help him lay out a site. Field into 'plots'. And although a more than successful yachtsman and navigator, it became apparent that 345 didn't feature in his knowledge.
Sent him off with the tape reel and giving him different multiples of 3,4 and 5 on each occasion that we had to establish a right angle. Wish I'd videoed it. The more that I hysterically giggled, the larger the multiple had to be so that he couldn't hear me.
I've never actually confessed to it...
Until now. Colin.
Fun can still be had though. Surveyor friend asked me to help him lay out a site. Field into 'plots'. And although a more than successful yachtsman and navigator, it became apparent that 345 didn't feature in his knowledge.
Sent him off with the tape reel and giving him different multiples of 3,4 and 5 on each occasion that we had to establish a right angle. Wish I'd videoed it. The more that I hysterically giggled, the larger the multiple had to be so that he couldn't hear me.
I've never actually confessed to it...
Until now. Colin.
Last edited by boguing; 10th July 2012 at 21:35.
Joined: Aug 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 152
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From: Vendée
Uncle Fred, I am sure you must have seen it in Vendee also, the French, in the home of the metric system, have invented a new non-metric system of distance measurement - The Minute !
All over we see direction signs to McD, Intermarché, Leclerc etc "au feu a droite, 2mn" (at the traffic signal, turn right, 2minutes) although if anybody tried to achieve those timings they would suspect that, being patriotic, they must have asked Air France to calculate the 'distance'
daved
All over we see direction signs to McD, Intermarché, Leclerc etc "au feu a droite, 2mn" (at the traffic signal, turn right, 2minutes) although if anybody tried to achieve those timings they would suspect that, being patriotic, they must have asked Air France to calculate the 'distance'
daved
Ah yes, the French minute--un peu de temps! Fungible, with plasticity, without fixed interval...it has a character of its own but does add a element of relaxation to the proceedings.
Reminds me of the quote from Gustav Flaubert Une minute--On ne se doute pas comme c'est long, une minute
Joined: May 2007
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From: Europe
As a Gunner (RA) I was around when we changed in the early 1960s from yards (NOT equal to a metre!) and degrees, to metres and mils (6,400 in a circle, vs 360X60X60 seconds). The simplicity of the shell-lobbing arithmetic from that moment was wonderful.
Metres have a scientific basis as a measurement constant and navigation tool, just as knots do. Statute miles, yards, feet and inches are something to do with how Roman soldiers would yomp along and other measures that meant something 2,000 years ago, and they belong in that time.
I navigate my boat in knots/nautical miles, because I locate myself using latitude and longitude, and so does my GPS when it's not on some national grid or another. My aircraft, when I owned one, measured speed in knots so I navigated in nautical miles. If I'm using a map on land I navigate in metres/kilometres/kph because, in the UK and most other countries I plod around in, the grid and vertical measurements on the map are metric. And thank God for that.
I navigate my boat in knots/nautical miles, because I locate myself using latitude and longitude, and so does my GPS when it's not on some national grid or another. My aircraft, when I owned one, measured speed in knots so I navigated in nautical miles. If I'm using a map on land I navigate in metres/kilometres/kph because, in the UK and most other countries I plod around in, the grid and vertical measurements on the map are metric. And thank God for that.
Last edited by Capot; 12th July 2012 at 10:02.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,167
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From: Australia
Parabellum:-- nope no confusion mate. CAT 3B at KJFK still requires at least 600' RVR to "commence the approach" you cannot commence any approach on the planet in zero zero.!!
Any approach below 1000' can be continued to minima for a look see if the RVR falls below minima. CAT 3B on the other hand can continue to land as visual ref is not needed until after nose wheel touchdown.
Although you'd be pretty brave to land in zero zero CAT 3B...
Any approach below 1000' can be continued to minima for a look see if the RVR falls below minima. CAT 3B on the other hand can continue to land as visual ref is not needed until after nose wheel touchdown.
Although you'd be pretty brave to land in zero zero CAT 3B...
Last edited by nitpicker330; 12th July 2012 at 10:26.
Joined: Nov 1999
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From: UK
It is actually quite useful that our units for speed, distance and altitude are all different, because that prevents confusion.
If we hear an instruction in feet or flight level, we know it refers to altitude. Similarly; Knots = speed, miles or nautical miles = distance, Kilometers or meters = visibility.
Be careful what you wish for: If it was ALL in meters, can you imagine the potential confusion?:- "Speedbaby 123, descend altitude four kilometers to be level four zero kilometers before Brookman's Park, speed four zero zero kilometers per hour, RVRs at Stansted four zero zero/four zero zero/four zero zero meters".
Think about also the extra RT time that would be involved in a busy TMA taken up by having to say 'kilometers per hour' each time instead of simply 'knots'.
If we hear an instruction in feet or flight level, we know it refers to altitude. Similarly; Knots = speed, miles or nautical miles = distance, Kilometers or meters = visibility.
Be careful what you wish for: If it was ALL in meters, can you imagine the potential confusion?:- "Speedbaby 123, descend altitude four kilometers to be level four zero kilometers before Brookman's Park, speed four zero zero kilometers per hour, RVRs at Stansted four zero zero/four zero zero/four zero zero meters".
Think about also the extra RT time that would be involved in a busy TMA taken up by having to say 'kilometers per hour' each time instead of simply 'knots'.
Last edited by Uplinker; 12th July 2012 at 13:17.