EFATO ECAM Actions
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MD
Airbus did not specify the engine. But what it means is that there is a threshold for relight taking place that is monitored by FADEC and not the time. Below that threshold (above 400ft) it attempts an auto start and for that it requires manual ignition. This all gets over in 30 seconds from the time you select ignition and if unsuccessful you move on.
Airbus did not specify the engine. But what it means is that there is a threshold for relight taking place that is monitored by FADEC and not the time. Below that threshold (above 400ft) it attempts an auto start and for that it requires manual ignition. This all gets over in 30 seconds from the time you select ignition and if unsuccessful you move on.
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This is a quick wind milling relight attempt before N2 drops low. If you see Engine Restart flight envelope, below 18% N2 (CFM) you need starter assist. If this fails you will attempt starter assisted relight later (with no damage).
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Communicate?
Coming back to the initial question, when do you think is the right moment to contact ATC with the mayday?
Fly and Navigate first, but if you are going to deviate from the cleared SID, a short "mayday, standby" will be helpful.
Maybe this 30 sec ECAM line is a good moment if everything is under control?
Thanks.
Fly and Navigate first, but if you are going to deviate from the cleared SID, a short "mayday, standby" will be helpful.
Maybe this 30 sec ECAM line is a good moment if everything is under control?
Thanks.
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Gryphon
Communicate is flexible action. If you are deviating then you can give it before deviating, ECAM stopped call given then resumed again. If continuing till clean up then after retraction to flap1 there is a big gap of inactivity. Generally for Engine fail it is PAN call.
Communicate is flexible action. If you are deviating then you can give it before deviating, ECAM stopped call given then resumed again. If continuing till clean up then after retraction to flap1 there is a big gap of inactivity. Generally for Engine fail it is PAN call.
Only half a speed-brake
Vilas: to me the issue with 30 sec is not clear yet, but meanwhile wanted to say thanks for contributions. Keep the brain busy.
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In my company's FCOM under the ENG 1(2) FAIL abnormal and emergency procedure there is a line that states:
In flight:
ENG MODE SEL......................................................... ...........................................IGN Selection of continuous ignition confirms the immediate relight attempt made by the FADEC.
It does seem that the 30s starts from the selection of the engine mode selector to IGN then?
In flight:
ENG MODE SEL......................................................... ...........................................IGN Selection of continuous ignition confirms the immediate relight attempt made by the FADEC.
It does seem that the 30s starts from the selection of the engine mode selector to IGN then?
Only half a speed-brake
JS: Good.
See my initial post no 23:
See my initial post no 23:
The line only appears, when after 30s the ENG FAIL condition is still there. Once you see this ECAM blue line, the 30 had already passed (otherwise it is not displayed). Then:
One shall look at the engine if perhaps relight is actually in progress...
. if it is > just stand by and wait/hope for the engine to come alive
. if it is not > proceed as indicated.
One shall look at the engine if perhaps relight is actually in progress...
. if it is > just stand by and wait/hope for the engine to come alive
. if it is not > proceed as indicated.
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FD
Do you have any documentary reference about what you are stating? Because what JS has produced is incomplete. I can vouch for OP DES post because I have those documents. Reproduced below:
Content:
Engine failed after V1
Question:
When are triggered “ENG START SEL … IGN” and “THR LEVER…..IDLE” on ECAM after Take off.
Answer:
In case of an ENG FAIL, only:
“ENG START SEL … IGN” is triggered since the aircraft is in flight phase 4 or 5. All others appropriate procedure beginning by: “THR LEVER…..IDLE” will be shown in flight phase 6 (1500 feet AGL) or 30 seconds after the lift off.
These logics ensure that the aircraft is above the required 400 feet AGL before the ECAM procedure is initiated.
Content:
Engine failure after V1, timing 30 sec.
Question:
On engine failure ECAM procedure is written:
. IF NO RELIGHT AFTER 30 S
ENG MASTER X ……………………….OFF
30 seconds from when or where?
Answer:
The 1st “ timer “(transparent to the crew) begins at the ECU failure detection. In fact, it is not a question of time but N2 rotation.
If flameout detected, ECU automatically energizes dual ignition.
Below 400 ft, when ignition has not been manually selected (rotary selector "norm", Ecam actions not started yet), and a relight does not occur before corrected N2 is below 40 percent, then ignition is discontinued and a complete air start sequence must be initiated; end of “auto relight” by ECU.
Above 400ft (Ecam actions started) ignition manually selected (rotary selector "ign/start") and a relight does not occur before N2 is below 47 %, then the FADEC will transition to an auto start sequence. There are the famous 30 seconds. Timing (30 seconds) starts as soon as Engine mode selector is set to START position and should be monitored by the crew by the mean of ‘’TAKE OFF CHRONO START’’ action;no further chrono start required for this.
If this auto start fails, the engine must be shutdown by setting Master switch OFF after 30 seconds in order to recycle FADEC and probably perform a “manual” relight in flight, if no damage.
Do you have any documentary reference about what you are stating? Because what JS has produced is incomplete. I can vouch for OP DES post because I have those documents. Reproduced below:
Content:
Engine failed after V1
Question:
When are triggered “ENG START SEL … IGN” and “THR LEVER…..IDLE” on ECAM after Take off.
Answer:
In case of an ENG FAIL, only:
“ENG START SEL … IGN” is triggered since the aircraft is in flight phase 4 or 5. All others appropriate procedure beginning by: “THR LEVER…..IDLE” will be shown in flight phase 6 (1500 feet AGL) or 30 seconds after the lift off.
These logics ensure that the aircraft is above the required 400 feet AGL before the ECAM procedure is initiated.
Content:
Engine failure after V1, timing 30 sec.
Question:
On engine failure ECAM procedure is written:
. IF NO RELIGHT AFTER 30 S
ENG MASTER X ……………………….OFF
30 seconds from when or where?
Answer:
The 1st “ timer “(transparent to the crew) begins at the ECU failure detection. In fact, it is not a question of time but N2 rotation.
If flameout detected, ECU automatically energizes dual ignition.
Below 400 ft, when ignition has not been manually selected (rotary selector "norm", Ecam actions not started yet), and a relight does not occur before corrected N2 is below 40 percent, then ignition is discontinued and a complete air start sequence must be initiated; end of “auto relight” by ECU.
Above 400ft (Ecam actions started) ignition manually selected (rotary selector "ign/start") and a relight does not occur before N2 is below 47 %, then the FADEC will transition to an auto start sequence. There are the famous 30 seconds. Timing (30 seconds) starts as soon as Engine mode selector is set to START position and should be monitored by the crew by the mean of ‘’TAKE OFF CHRONO START’’ action;no further chrono start required for this.
If this auto start fails, the engine must be shutdown by setting Master switch OFF after 30 seconds in order to recycle FADEC and probably perform a “manual” relight in flight, if no damage.
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john
First I want to make it clear that this is not at all between you and me. This particular subject was prone to misunderstanding even in Toulouse. What I have quoted is the answers given by Airbus industry to their own instructor. Now coming to the question itself there was never any doubt that the first timing starts at the detection of engine failure by ECU but as mentioned by Airbus it is not timing but monitoring of N2. This and above 400ft auto relight is the difference in what you say and what was stated earlier. This off course was old but in April 2012 when the subject came up again Airbus while maintaining this earlier explanation gave further brake down of 30 seconds as quoted by OP DES that timing of 30 sec above 400ft starts with Eng Mode sel ignition and by the time you read ECAM 30 secs are almost over. That is why I am looking for something which is crystal clear and without any doubt. However I will get back with either confirmation of your info or some other angle.
First I want to make it clear that this is not at all between you and me. This particular subject was prone to misunderstanding even in Toulouse. What I have quoted is the answers given by Airbus industry to their own instructor. Now coming to the question itself there was never any doubt that the first timing starts at the detection of engine failure by ECU but as mentioned by Airbus it is not timing but monitoring of N2. This and above 400ft auto relight is the difference in what you say and what was stated earlier. This off course was old but in April 2012 when the subject came up again Airbus while maintaining this earlier explanation gave further brake down of 30 seconds as quoted by OP DES that timing of 30 sec above 400ft starts with Eng Mode sel ignition and by the time you read ECAM 30 secs are almost over. That is why I am looking for something which is crystal clear and without any doubt. However I will get back with either confirmation of your info or some other angle.
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john_smith
I did some search in FCOM and came out with two different procedures for different MSN numbers. One says if no relight after 30 seconds engine master off and 30 seconds count down start as soon as engine fail alert is triggered. Also there is sign after the word count down the meaning of which is applicable if equipment is fitted. The second procedure omits the 30seconds totally and says if no relight engine master off. However this is not specific to EFATO. So I am looking for what is that MOD or how does it fit in EFATO.
I did some search in FCOM and came out with two different procedures for different MSN numbers. One says if no relight after 30 seconds engine master off and 30 seconds count down start as soon as engine fail alert is triggered. Also there is sign after the word count down the meaning of which is applicable if equipment is fitted. The second procedure omits the 30seconds totally and says if no relight engine master off. However this is not specific to EFATO. So I am looking for what is that MOD or how does it fit in EFATO.
