EFATO ECAM Actions
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 8
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From: Singapore
Take off Thrust limit
@ OPEN DES
"Max EOAA is normally limited by 10min at TOGA so no rush to secure the engine."
My understanding is that Take off Thrust (TOGA or FLEX) is limited to 10 minutes.
There was a change in the FCTM which came about 4-5 yrs back. I can't seem to find it now.
Can anyone confirm or give any documentary reference.
Thanks
"Max EOAA is normally limited by 10min at TOGA so no rush to secure the engine."
My understanding is that Take off Thrust (TOGA or FLEX) is limited to 10 minutes.
There was a change in the FCTM which came about 4-5 yrs back. I can't seem to find it now.
Can anyone confirm or give any documentary reference.
Thanks
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 39
From: Wanderlust
Microburst & Blinkz
In Airbus there is no automatic countdown of 30 seconds from engine mode selector to ignition. The countdown is available only from fire button push for 10 seconds for first agent discharge. This includes even the latest aircraft.
In Airbus there is no automatic countdown of 30 seconds from engine mode selector to ignition. The countdown is available only from fire button push for 10 seconds for first agent discharge. This includes even the latest aircraft.
Only half a speed-brake
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,459
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From: Commuting not home
2 OPDES: "If no relight after 30 s .... "
The line only appears, when after 30s the ENG FAIL condition is still there. Once you see this ECAM blue line, the 30 had already passed (otherwise it is not displayed). Then:
One shall look at the engine if perhaps relight is actually in progress...
. if it is > just stand by and wait/hope for the engine to come alive
. if it is not > proceed as indicated.
In a proper SIM, just observe when "If no relight" line is introduced on the screen. Approx 31 s after the ENG 1(2) FAIL had been indicated.
The line only appears, when after 30s the ENG FAIL condition is still there. Once you see this ECAM blue line, the 30 had already passed (otherwise it is not displayed). Then:
One shall look at the engine if perhaps relight is actually in progress...
. if it is > just stand by and wait/hope for the engine to come alive
. if it is not > proceed as indicated.
In a proper SIM, just observe when "If no relight" line is introduced on the screen. Approx 31 s after the ENG 1(2) FAIL had been indicated.
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Wanderlust
Flight Detent
Are you talking about 30 seconds from lift off which in this case is also from engine fail? Below from Airbus:
(When engine fails after V1) since aircraft is in flight phase 4 or 5 the only thing that is triggered on ECAM is "ENGINE START SEL....IGN" all other appropriate procedures beginning by "THRUST LEVER....IDLE" will be shown in flight phase 6 (1500feet AGL) or 30 seconds after lift off. These logics ensure that aircraft is above the required 400 feet AGL before the ECAM procedure is initiated."
Same thing you will observe if engine fails below 1500 feet during go round. The ECAM appears after 30 seconds or at1500 feet. So ECAM ACTIONS themselves appear after this 30 seconds. The timing we are talking starts when we manually put the Engine start Selector to ignition. However the calculation of those 30 seconds given by OP DES is correct.
Are you talking about 30 seconds from lift off which in this case is also from engine fail? Below from Airbus:
(When engine fails after V1) since aircraft is in flight phase 4 or 5 the only thing that is triggered on ECAM is "ENGINE START SEL....IGN" all other appropriate procedures beginning by "THRUST LEVER....IDLE" will be shown in flight phase 6 (1500feet AGL) or 30 seconds after lift off. These logics ensure that aircraft is above the required 400 feet AGL before the ECAM procedure is initiated."
Same thing you will observe if engine fails below 1500 feet during go round. The ECAM appears after 30 seconds or at1500 feet. So ECAM ACTIONS themselves appear after this 30 seconds. The timing we are talking starts when we manually put the Engine start Selector to ignition. However the calculation of those 30 seconds given by OP DES is correct.
Last edited by vilas; 9th May 2014 at 05:03. Reason: minor correction
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 509
Likes: 3
From: United States of Europe
EFATO ECAM Actions
Hi guys, thanks for the feedback.
Nothing to add I think.
KISS:
After putting eng mode sel to IGN: take a deep breath, no sign of relight.. Continue ECAM disregarding 30s.
Some earlier sims didn't have the 30sec mentioned at all. Latest STD: 30sec displayed... But never with a countdown.. Hence some of the confusion.
All the best
Nothing to add I think.
KISS:
After putting eng mode sel to IGN: take a deep breath, no sign of relight.. Continue ECAM disregarding 30s.
Some earlier sims didn't have the 30sec mentioned at all. Latest STD: 30sec displayed... But never with a countdown.. Hence some of the confusion.
All the best
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 39
From: Wanderlust
john smith
You have misunderstood the line. What I and OP DES wrote says it all but I will put it together for you. When engine fails after V1 the ECU detects a flame out and attempts a relight by energising dual auto ignition but since the aircraft is in flight phase 4 or 5 you only see on ECAM ENG START SEL...IGNITION. The full ECAM starting with THR LEVER..IDLE appears at 1500 feet(in phase 6) or 30 seconds after the failure ). These 30 seconds are not the ones we are talking about. After the ignition comes on the ECU does not time 30 seconds but monitors N2. If N2 drops below 40% the ignition is turned off. This is the end of auto relight. Now when ECAM appears and you select mode selector to IGN/START then you time 30 seconds. Here also ECU monitors the N2 and if N2 falls or remains below 47% N2 it attempts another auto start that is why you need to wait 30 seconds from then. When you select the ignition it termed as confirming auto relight.
You have misunderstood the line. What I and OP DES wrote says it all but I will put it together for you. When engine fails after V1 the ECU detects a flame out and attempts a relight by energising dual auto ignition but since the aircraft is in flight phase 4 or 5 you only see on ECAM ENG START SEL...IGNITION. The full ECAM starting with THR LEVER..IDLE appears at 1500 feet(in phase 6) or 30 seconds after the failure ). These 30 seconds are not the ones we are talking about. After the ignition comes on the ECU does not time 30 seconds but monitors N2. If N2 drops below 40% the ignition is turned off. This is the end of auto relight. Now when ECAM appears and you select mode selector to IGN/START then you time 30 seconds. Here also ECU monitors the N2 and if N2 falls or remains below 47% N2 it attempts another auto start that is why you need to wait 30 seconds from then. When you select the ignition it termed as confirming auto relight.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,443
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From: Wanderlust
ZFT
This must be the latest development. I don't seem to locate it. Toulouse doesn't have it. 1.9 manual is not published. Where did you find it? In any case the issue was that there is no self timer for 30 seconds for relight. Because as stated before the ECU monitors the N2 and not the time.
This must be the latest development. I don't seem to locate it. Toulouse doesn't have it. 1.9 manual is not published. Where did you find it? In any case the issue was that there is no self timer for 30 seconds for relight. Because as stated before the ECU monitors the N2 and not the time.
Last edited by vilas; 11th May 2014 at 03:18.
N4790P
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,557
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From: Asia
vilas
Airbus standard 1.9 for A320 simulators SB-A320-1.9.0 issue 1 Ref D00626100 was issued by G05 on 24/04/2014 ( I wasn't making any comment on the relight issue, just the latest available standard)
Airbus standard 1.9 for A320 simulators SB-A320-1.9.0 issue 1 Ref D00626100 was issued by G05 on 24/04/2014 ( I wasn't making any comment on the relight issue, just the latest available standard)
N4790P
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,557
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From: Asia
Vilas,
The significant training impact of 1.9 seems to be ROPS, ATSAW and AP/FD-TCAS.
The AP/FD-TCAS is interesting as this function was recently the subject of an FAA and EASA AD on the A330 and has been mandated to be disabled.
The significant training impact of 1.9 seems to be ROPS, ATSAW and AP/FD-TCAS.
The AP/FD-TCAS is interesting as this function was recently the subject of an FAA and EASA AD on the A330 and has been mandated to be disabled.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 39
From: Wanderlust
john smith
I quoted what is from Airbus itself. I am sure you have not seen the Airbus reply yourself. You are still confusing two issues Timing does not start from FADEC switching on ignition but from manual selection of Engine mode selector to ignition and . However you don't need to time it because: Reproducing Airbus document
Do I read the chronometer to monitor the 30 seconds? Not required
I quoted what is from Airbus itself. I am sure you have not seen the Airbus reply yourself. You are still confusing two issues Timing does not start from FADEC switching on ignition but from manual selection of Engine mode selector to ignition and . However you don't need to time it because: Reproducing Airbus document
Do I read the chronometer to monitor the 30 seconds? Not required
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 39
From: Wanderlust
ZFT
The TCAS/FD mode is supposed to be automatic right? I have seen the presentation. At it appeared bit scary because of the time factor involved if auto goes awry. Have you seen 1.9 installed yourself. I have worked on 1.7 and 1.8.
The TCAS/FD mode is supposed to be automatic right? I have seen the presentation. At it appeared bit scary because of the time factor involved if auto goes awry. Have you seen 1.9 installed yourself. I have worked on 1.7 and 1.8.
N4790P
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,557
Likes: 233
From: Asia
Vilas,
No, it's too soon after release for the sim OEMs to get to grips with it I suspect. We were looking to upgrade the A330 about now but Airbus have deferred this AP/TCAS feature until at least March 2015 and the next release (after 2.5.X I assume).
Are there any tangible differences between 1.7.1 and 1.8 for training?
No, it's too soon after release for the sim OEMs to get to grips with it I suspect. We were looking to upgrade the A330 about now but Airbus have deferred this AP/TCAS feature until at least March 2015 and the next release (after 2.5.X I assume).
Are there any tangible differences between 1.7.1 and 1.8 for training?