A320 Engine out before VFTO
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Asia
A320 Engine out before VFTO
Speed is V2+10 in Config 3, Climb thrust is selected at 1500' (MSA 2500')
FMA reads THR CLB , CLB , NAV , 1AP
Instructor introduces engine flameout.
What steps would you follow to comply with departure's vertical requirements?
My thoughts
Select speed for V2
apply TOGA, monitor directional control.
ECAM ACTIONS
engine secured, stop ECAM
Push to level off, cleanup, open climb, MCT to MSA
continue ECAM.
Thank you for sharing
FMA reads THR CLB , CLB , NAV , 1AP
Instructor introduces engine flameout.
What steps would you follow to comply with departure's vertical requirements?
My thoughts
Select speed for V2
apply TOGA, monitor directional control.
ECAM ACTIONS
engine secured, stop ECAM
Push to level off, cleanup, open climb, MCT to MSA
continue ECAM.
Thank you for sharing
Joined: Feb 1998
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Formerly of Nam
First rule - FLY THE AIRPLANE. Then proceed with the drills.
Why do you want to select speed V2?
Apply TOGA if your heavy and/or at segment limited weight.
Otherwise leave it in FLEX if the thing is performing ok (one
less thing to do). However I'll qualify all that by saying its at
pilot discretion.
Why do you want to select speed V2?
Apply TOGA if your heavy and/or at segment limited weight.
Otherwise leave it in FLEX if the thing is performing ok (one
less thing to do). However I'll qualify all that by saying its at
pilot discretion.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,061
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From: My views - Not my employer!
Our mob, in this scenario, select MCT and leave it to accelerate by itself. Only at 'high weights/temperatures should v/s 0 be selected'. Apply ECAM and climb to MSA.
We have it carefully detailed in FCOM 3.
We have it carefully detailed in FCOM 3.
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: US
Engine failure after climb power is selected, while still in T.O. configuration, is a situation that requires more power.
Recent incident, report not yet published, will center on power remaining at climb power and the a/c unable to maintain altitude/airspeed due to the low(climb) power setting with T.O. flaps and an heavy a/c.
It can be a handful and requires some slightly non standard, or rarely used, procedures, which is why CKA/TRI's like to use it as a teaching moment.
Recent incident, report not yet published, will center on power remaining at climb power and the a/c unable to maintain altitude/airspeed due to the low(climb) power setting with T.O. flaps and an heavy a/c.
It can be a handful and requires some slightly non standard, or rarely used, procedures, which is why CKA/TRI's like to use it as a teaching moment.
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Up north
I can see the issue of climb thrust not being enough, but on the other hand, why make something fairly straight fwd into something that sounds like its coming out of CERN!? If you are not getting enough climb with whatever thrust setting you have at the time of engine failure, go to next detent!
The same goes for engine failure after V1, prior to Vr, if I need TOGA I use it, if not I prefer not to select it, or select it after I have engaged the AP, to avoid having to deal with additional the yaw.
As pointed out by a previous poster, airbus procedure calls for "Climb at min V2, or the speed you have at time of engine failure" so no need to select V2.
CP
The same goes for engine failure after V1, prior to Vr, if I need TOGA I use it, if not I prefer not to select it, or select it after I have engaged the AP, to avoid having to deal with additional the yaw.
As pointed out by a previous poster, airbus procedure calls for "Climb at min V2, or the speed you have at time of engine failure" so no need to select V2.
CP
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 1
From: Uh... Where was I?
In my opinion, being already at 1,500 ft there is little to worry about, push to level off, pull HDG and turn back towards the airfield if required due to obstacles or steep altitude constraints ahead. Otherwise keep NAV, then clean configuration till green dot (should there be no acceleration at all, move the levers to MCT). Then proceed as usual, OP CLB to MSA.
The lever in TOGA would activate GA mode, right? If you go TOGA you would then get SRS, which is nonsense at 1500 ft AGL. It would be confusing and then you would have to push to level off again to solve it, if the tangle in your brain cells is not too difficult to untangle.
The rule would be: below ACCEL ALT, go for TOGA SRS. Above ACCEL ALT go for THR MCT, V/S 0.
In the event of a totally unexpected scenario where airplane's performance is well below assumed performance (one engine out and the other with reduced thrust, or large extra drag due to damaged fuelage or wing or engine surfaces or something like that) when the AP/FD modes cannot achieve their targets, like maitaining an altitude or a speed, then I think the better course of action is to hand fly the bloody airplane, before the bloody airplane flyes us. When you disconnect everything you are no longer afraid of complex problems derivated from automation logics. It is no time to monitor, it is the time to take over personally. It is you and the airplane, if it cannot maintain altitude at a safe speed, then try inmediate return, change configuration as required and cross your fingers.
The lever in TOGA would activate GA mode, right? If you go TOGA you would then get SRS, which is nonsense at 1500 ft AGL. It would be confusing and then you would have to push to level off again to solve it, if the tangle in your brain cells is not too difficult to untangle.
The rule would be: below ACCEL ALT, go for TOGA SRS. Above ACCEL ALT go for THR MCT, V/S 0.
In the event of a totally unexpected scenario where airplane's performance is well below assumed performance (one engine out and the other with reduced thrust, or large extra drag due to damaged fuelage or wing or engine surfaces or something like that) when the AP/FD modes cannot achieve their targets, like maitaining an altitude or a speed, then I think the better course of action is to hand fly the bloody airplane, before the bloody airplane flyes us. When you disconnect everything you are no longer afraid of complex problems derivated from automation logics. It is no time to monitor, it is the time to take over personally. It is you and the airplane, if it cannot maintain altitude at a safe speed, then try inmediate return, change configuration as required and cross your fingers.
Joined: May 2004
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From: INDIA
Speed is V2+10 in Config 3, Climb thrust is selected at 1500' (MSA 2500')
FMA reads THR CLB , CLB , NAV , 1AP
Ok so now ur have the flame out given to you at 1500 ft,
So WAT. Would do is
TOGA IF REQUIRED, OR ELSE SELECT MCT
PUSH TO LEVEL OFF OR SELECT V/s zero
SELECT GEEEN DOT SPEED
START ACCECERATING AND CLEAN UP THE SHIP
OMCE AT GREENDOT SPEED PULL CLB TO MSA INUR CASE 2500 ft sell t hdg to maintainrunwY hdg or ask for hdg to return back t th airfield and then ask for ECAM and follow normal sop as per the FCTM
Toga is limited to 10 min so I wouldn't want to selec it unless really limited by performance, mostly MCT SHOULD TAKE CARE OF EVERTHING
CONDISER VECTORS , OVER WT LANDING CHE KLIST IF IM OVER MY LANDING WT ECT....
FMA reads THR CLB , CLB , NAV , 1AP
Ok so now ur have the flame out given to you at 1500 ft,
So WAT. Would do is
TOGA IF REQUIRED, OR ELSE SELECT MCT
PUSH TO LEVEL OFF OR SELECT V/s zero
SELECT GEEEN DOT SPEED
START ACCECERATING AND CLEAN UP THE SHIP
OMCE AT GREENDOT SPEED PULL CLB TO MSA INUR CASE 2500 ft sell t hdg to maintainrunwY hdg or ask for hdg to return back t th airfield and then ask for ECAM and follow normal sop as per the FCTM
Toga is limited to 10 min so I wouldn't want to selec it unless really limited by performance, mostly MCT SHOULD TAKE CARE OF EVERTHING
CONDISER VECTORS , OVER WT LANDING CHE KLIST IF IM OVER MY LANDING WT ECT....
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 269
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From: In the rain
The situation calls for a combination of initial climb and cruise failure scenarios, I would select current speed then proceed as per the engine failure after take-off drill in FCTM -> Abnormal Operations -> Operating Techniques -> Engine failures. Keeps you climbing and protects against flap overspeed should you reach your cleared level before securing the engine.
Lateral navigation as per terrain/ATC requirements.
S.
Lateral navigation as per terrain/ATC requirements.
S.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 1
From: Uh... Where was I?
honestly I think it is simple.
below ACCEL, do what you usually do below accel altitude: TOGA SRS (pull speed if no SRS, but I think SRS would come green, right?
above ACCEL, do what you usually do at accel alttitude: VS zero, clean, green dot, OP CLB, MCT...
below ACCEL, do what you usually do below accel altitude: TOGA SRS (pull speed if no SRS, but I think SRS would come green, right?
above ACCEL, do what you usually do at accel alttitude: VS zero, clean, green dot, OP CLB, MCT...
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
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From: UK
MD83 - one observation which applies to all types: IF your performance dept has (as req'd) surveyed the SID for safety up to either return or en-route MSA - many don't - then you may need to follow any published emergency route. If as is common, their care for you and your pax and crew ends at 1500'AAL clean then you had better have an idea of what may lie between 1500 and MSA in terms of cumulo-granitus.
