When Was Close-Coupled Canards First Possible?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York & California
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When Was Close-Coupled Canards First Possible?
While I know a delta-winged aircraft's takeoff and landing performance can be improved by using a canard to shift the C/L forward allowing the elevons to be drooped; some aircraft use close-coupled canards to further improve low speed performance by using the vortices generated off the tips of the canard to amplify the vortices off the delta-wing.
When did the knowledge first exist to produce a canarded delta whereby the vortex off the canard could be used to amplify the vortex off the wing's leading-edge?
When did the knowledge first exist to produce a canarded delta whereby the vortex off the canard could be used to amplify the vortex off the wing's leading-edge?
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sale, Australia
Age: 80
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The SAAB Viggen was the first to use the close coupled canard delta configuration, and the reason given for choosing this layout was,
The Swedes disperse their aircraft and use motorways, hence the interest was primarily in STOL performance.
This paper by U. Claréus, Project Manager, JAS 39 Aerodynamics, Saab Aerospace, may be what you are after.
MACH Aviation Magazine - på webben
The flattery is misdirected Lyman. I do enjoy digging for the info in hope of guiding some one to a possible answer though. 
The canard arrangement has notable advantages in achieving a good field performance and weight-lifting abilities without resort to complex highlift "flappery." Lift/drag ratios are better by virtue of the fact that the foreplane, with drooped elevators to raise the nose on take-off, is providing positive lift, rather than lift being partially killed by the raised elevators or elevons of conventional wing-before-tailplane or tailless delta aircraft. There are much reduced interference effects between the mainplane and the smaller surface with a canard than with a conventional configuration.
This paper by U. Claréus, Project Manager, JAS 39 Aerodynamics, Saab Aerospace, may be what you are after.
MACH Aviation Magazine - på webben
Brian Abraham, ask him, he knows.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SoCalif
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When they stretched the DC-9 to make the 80 series, they had to make the tail larger. I thought at the time that would have been the perfect opportunity to add a canard instead, a la Piaggio.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Grassy Valley
Posts: 2,074
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A Piggio operates out of SFO near hear. I think it is a charter.
IMO. canard, VT, Blown wing, etc. are creatures of Mil flight. On the other hand, if an airframe (commercial) needs tweaking with these things, then it perhaps should not be built, as a new airframe will design benefit the improvement out of its necessity.
IE Vortex generators, belly strakes, even NOTAR.
Maybe not NOTAR, the Tail Rotor is an evil to be wary of.
Managing airstream is a complexity. The last basic improvement that has my endorsement is the Wright's relocation of the Tail to the Tail.
Isn't NASA trying to develop fast jet "Wing Warping"?
There's the Ticket
IMO. canard, VT, Blown wing, etc. are creatures of Mil flight. On the other hand, if an airframe (commercial) needs tweaking with these things, then it perhaps should not be built, as a new airframe will design benefit the improvement out of its necessity.
IE Vortex generators, belly strakes, even NOTAR.
Maybe not NOTAR, the Tail Rotor is an evil to be wary of.
Managing airstream is a complexity. The last basic improvement that has my endorsement is the Wright's relocation of the Tail to the Tail.
Isn't NASA trying to develop fast jet "Wing Warping"?
There's the Ticket
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York & California
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brian Abraham
I'm not disputing that. I'm wondering when it was first possible to produce such a design that would work.
What kind of "high-lift flappery" could have provided the desired performance for a delta-winged fighter design? As I understand the Viggen had a fairly low AoA on takeoff and landing.
I always thought that would always result in an unstable design?
Unless you're talking about downwash off the tail, I'm not sure I understand.
The SAAB Viggen was the first to use the close coupled canard delta configuration
the reason given for choosing this layout was,
The canard arrangement has notable advantages in achieving a good field performance and weight-lifting abilities without resort to complex highlift "flappery."
Lift/drag ratios are better by virtue of the fact that the foreplane, with drooped elevators to raise the nose on take-off, is providing positive lift, rather than lift being partially killed by the raised elevators or elevons of conventional wing-before-tailplane or tailless delta aircraft.
There are much reduced interference effects between the mainplane and the smaller surface with a canard than with a conventional configuration.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: France
Posts: 2,315
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which acts (as suggested) not totally unlike a 'chine', while having advantages as a control surface at the same time.
As to your "when?" question, I have no idea, and I'll leave that to the historians here on PPRuNe....
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: flyover country USA
Age: 82
Posts: 4,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When they stretched the DC-9 to make the 80 series, they had to make the tail larger...
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: France
Posts: 2,315
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's added 'hardware', hence weight. so if the idea was 'virtually worthless' it wouldn't be there.... engineers are not as stupid as you seem to think.
Never mind that a lot of not-Airbus aircraft now also feature winglets.
CJ
