One Eng driven Gene remaining Airbus - Land ASAP or not?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: India
One Eng driven Gene remaining Airbus - Land ASAP or not?
Guys - I have this question for all ye airbus pilots - what's your take on this?
Boeing says land ASAP if you have one electrical source remaining - not quite the same with Airbus - Let's say you have only one Engine driven generator available (non-ETOPS flight), you don't have to land ASAP do you? Is that practical?
Boeing says land ASAP if you have one electrical source remaining - not quite the same with Airbus - Let's say you have only one Engine driven generator available (non-ETOPS flight), you don't have to land ASAP do you? Is that practical?
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 0
From: US
Having one electrical source remaining, and having only one engine driven generator available, is not the same thing.
If you have only one engine driven generator available you can still start the APU for electrical power.
If you only have one electrical source there is no second power source.
If you have only one engine driven generator available you can still start the APU for electrical power.
If you only have one electrical source there is no second power source.
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: SCL
Hello guys,
I will divert... Yes you have the RAT but personally i d prefer to land asap.
I have made this same question to some instructors, some of them told me that they will continue, and other will land asap.
I will divert... Yes you have the RAT but personally i d prefer to land asap.
I have made this same question to some instructors, some of them told me that they will continue, and other will land asap.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,167
Likes: 2
From: Australia
The 777 QRH says: Plan to land ASAP if:-
• only one AC power source remains (main engine generator, APU generator, or backup power system [both generators])
Then there is the Standby Elec system powered by the batteries and a RAT.
The Airbus manual doesn't specify this, indeed the FCOM 3 doesn't contain a LAND ASAP for loss of a Elec gen. If you lose a Gen in flight it only says "consider APU use" I guess Airbus is happy for you to trundle along on only 1 Gen?
it comes down to your judgement on the day considering all factors.
Good luck.
• only one AC power source remains (main engine generator, APU generator, or backup power system [both generators])
Then there is the Standby Elec system powered by the batteries and a RAT.
The Airbus manual doesn't specify this, indeed the FCOM 3 doesn't contain a LAND ASAP for loss of a Elec gen. If you lose a Gen in flight it only says "consider APU use" I guess Airbus is happy for you to trundle along on only 1 Gen?
it comes down to your judgement on the day considering all factors.
Good luck.
Last edited by nitpicker330; 9th August 2011 at 01:03.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: somewhere
Loss of the ramaining gen will put you in emer elec config, which is land asap red.
Diversion to appropriate airdrome nearby (consideration to commercial and operational factors can be taken into account).
Diversion to appropriate airdrome nearby (consideration to commercial and operational factors can be taken into account).
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: India
Guys! Thank you for your valuable inputs - not all airbus RATs provide electrical power - a RAT on the 300s only provides Hydraulic power - so now with one engine generator and ONLY one gene remaining, Airbus does not say land ASAP like Boeing does. Is Boeing philosophy more conservative?
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
From: Thailand
Continuing flight with only a single source of supply on any system is not a good idea. If you are down to one of any of the following, Hyd, Air, Elec, Eng (on a twin) then the land ASAP is a fairly straightforward decision, be it in the Airbus or the Boeing. You will have a hard time justifying otherwise. The APU has the same effect on the equation whichever type you fly.
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 991
Likes: 128
From: big green wheely bin
I think a little common sense is required here. This sort of fault is covered by ECAM. However, ECAM has no idea if the APU is serviceable or not.
When I went through commercial training (years ago) a good maxim I was taught was: if your down to one of anything (eng, hyd, pilots, etc...) then it was to be considered an emergency.
When I went through commercial training (years ago) a good maxim I was taught was: if your down to one of anything (eng, hyd, pilots, etc...) then it was to be considered an emergency.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,424
Likes: 34
From: London,England
Quite agree with the above, I would plan to be on the ground ASAP with only one main source of AC power remaining. Common sense I would say, can't expect the ECAM to spoon feed you all the time although it is curious that the Airbus don't specifically mention it in the way Boeing do.
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 768
Likes: 0
From: The Land Downunder
Funnily enough I had this exact scenario in one of my last sim checks. We had just departed and GEN 1 overheated and had to be disconnected. After the ECAM etc I got the FO to start the APU. Funnily enough the APU failed to start twice. At that point I elected to return to departure airfield as we were only 20 minutes out and still had 2 hours plus to destination. Checkie was not impressed, he could not understand why I went back considering I still had the RAT and the EMER GEN that could run off that as a back up to the one remaining GEN. I simply stated that after one GEN failing followed by the APU failing I felt the safest option was to let an engineer look at the aircraft, I also stated that I didn't consider the EMER GEN as 'another' GEN as it is there purely to get you out of the '!!!!!', not to allow you to continue normal ops. At the end of the day, this is a bit of a 'gut' call, I would still land at the nearest suitable and get this sorted out, the checkie would still carry on to destination happy to rely on the RAT.
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: West Indies
Checkie was not impressed.
Artificial Horizon......I agree with you. Maybe the "Checkie" wanted to see you continue to destination and may have entered the "APU failed to start" fault by mistake. Ask him if he recorded his thoughts in your training file..!!
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,167
Likes: 2
From: Australia
Joesoap------The A330 RAT will provide 3.5 kva if required via the Emerg Gen. Not a lot but enough to get you down ASAP with no Eng/Apu Gen or Green Hyd power for the Emerg Gen.
So in the Airbus if you lose Both Eng Gens and the Apu Gen you still have the Emerg Gen available at either 8.6 kva or 3.5 kva.
On the 777 if you lose both Eng Gens and the Apu Gen you still have the backup Gen system and then the Rat Gen as well.
So in the Airbus if you lose Both Eng Gens and the Apu Gen you still have the Emerg Gen available at either 8.6 kva or 3.5 kva.
On the 777 if you lose both Eng Gens and the Apu Gen you still have the backup Gen system and then the Rat Gen as well.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,167
Likes: 2
From: Australia
Were you wrong to go back? I can't say you were but I don't know the status of the Airport you went back to.
Would you be wrong to go on? I can't say you would be as if you lost the remaining Eng Gen then you'd still have the Emerg Gen at 8.6 kva or if the Green Hyd also failed 3.5 kva ( via the RAT ) to get to the nearest Airport.
I can see how a commercial operator would prefer you continue but at the end of the day if you can JUSTIFY YOUR DECISION then do whatever you are comfortable with.
Sometimes these things are deliberately left in a grey area to give the Commander some wiggle room in his decision making. i.e its up to you to exercise good command judgement and decision making on the day.
Would you be wrong to go on? I can't say you would be as if you lost the remaining Eng Gen then you'd still have the Emerg Gen at 8.6 kva or if the Green Hyd also failed 3.5 kva ( via the RAT ) to get to the nearest Airport.
I can see how a commercial operator would prefer you continue but at the end of the day if you can JUSTIFY YOUR DECISION then do whatever you are comfortable with.
Sometimes these things are deliberately left in a grey area to give the Commander some wiggle room in his decision making. i.e its up to you to exercise good command judgement and decision making on the day.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: PuB near U
I don't think anyone would criticise you if you land at nearest suitable airport in real life if you are down to 1 elec source.
tea and biscuits or not...im landing it at the nearest suitable airport, dunno bout u...
tea and biscuits or not...im landing it at the nearest suitable airport, dunno bout u...