A320: (PNF) Foot on Rudder Pedals (during Taxi, T/O and LDG)
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Since this started as an A320 thread I would like to point out...
1. A320 rudder pedals are designed to be used with feet fully up on the pedals, not heels on the floor. Steer with your heels, brake with the balls of your feet (feetballs?).
2. If IMC moving your head to locate the INT/RAD switch then looking back at the PFD might cause disorientation. Using the sidestick (S/S) eliminates the risk.
3. If you have your hand correctly positioned on the S/S you can easily transmit without any S/S movement. But if your hand is "near" the S/S you may well move it when you position your hand to transmit.
Imagine the worst possible case... EFTO in a crosswind with PF incapacitation.. as PNF where would you like your feet to be? On the floor?
1. A320 rudder pedals are designed to be used with feet fully up on the pedals, not heels on the floor. Steer with your heels, brake with the balls of your feet (feetballs?).
2. If IMC moving your head to locate the INT/RAD switch then looking back at the PFD might cause disorientation. Using the sidestick (S/S) eliminates the risk.
3. If you have your hand correctly positioned on the S/S you can easily transmit without any S/S movement. But if your hand is "near" the S/S you may well move it when you position your hand to transmit.
Imagine the worst possible case... EFTO in a crosswind with PF incapacitation.. as PNF where would you like your feet to be? On the floor?
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You can inadvertently move the sidestick if you push the PTT switch without grabbing the sidestick. By grabbing the sidestick properly when pushing the PTT switch this is not the case.
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Honest, sincere question...
Don't have an agenda with this question....honest, sincere question: Is there a published reference that dictates whether the heels are to be on the floor, or if the feet shall be fully on the pedals?
It's an interesting question (to me, anyway), and I honestly cannot remember reading anywhere that this is addressed.
Fly safe,
PantLoad
It's an interesting question (to me, anyway), and I honestly cannot remember reading anywhere that this is addressed.
Fly safe,
PantLoad
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@tyro
....this is for shure NOT correct.
the optimised positioning is heels on the floor for T/O
and full up on the pedalstop for LDG
@tyro
....if this should be the case you better should stop flying because of disorientation. BTW: I feel the toggle-switch. don't need to move my head like an owl
1. A320 rudder pedals are designed to be used with feet fully up on the pedals, not heels on the floor.
the optimised positioning is heels on the floor for T/O
and full up on the pedalstop for LDG
@tyro
If IMC moving your head to locate the INT/RAD switch then looking back at the PFD might cause disorientation.
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Hi TyroPicard,
If you use the RT switch on the centre console - then you definitely won't move the S/S. Once the AP is engaged - then feel free to use the PTT on the S/S.
On Take Off, I simply "cover" the pedals (with my heels on floor) as PNF. I'm ready if required - but I definitely don't add any input to PF.
If you have your hand correctly positioned on the S/S you can easily transmit without any S/S movement. But if your hand is "near" the S/S you may well move it when you position your hand to transmit.
On Take Off, I simply "cover" the pedals (with my heels on floor) as PNF. I'm ready if required - but I definitely don't add any input to PF.
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I'm stupefied about some of the nonsense that has been written on this thread.
Airbus have made many comments at instructor symposiums that they purposefully stay out of this debate. The books are silent, and will continue to remain silent on this issue.
If you have soft rubber shoes, feet on the floor can actually jam the rudder pedals. So, some companies dictate the types of shoes you wear. Others insist that with feet dragging/scraping a bit on the floor gives you more feel for fine rudder inputs. Also that for an RTO, you might inadvertently disconnect the auto brake.
There is also plenty of Airbus pilots who feel that it's the only control where you can feel what the other guy is doing. I want to know exactly what the other guys is doing, so you won't find my heals on the floor ever.
5 years on type now, and only once has someone squealed to me during a TO roll about my feet. That same person has also been fired from every company he has ever worked for, CRM being the major issue.
I think Airbus has a point, stay out of it. If someone want's the other way, deal with it. There's no right or wrong.
Airbus have made many comments at instructor symposiums that they purposefully stay out of this debate. The books are silent, and will continue to remain silent on this issue.
If you have soft rubber shoes, feet on the floor can actually jam the rudder pedals. So, some companies dictate the types of shoes you wear. Others insist that with feet dragging/scraping a bit on the floor gives you more feel for fine rudder inputs. Also that for an RTO, you might inadvertently disconnect the auto brake.
There is also plenty of Airbus pilots who feel that it's the only control where you can feel what the other guy is doing. I want to know exactly what the other guys is doing, so you won't find my heals on the floor ever.
5 years on type now, and only once has someone squealed to me during a TO roll about my feet. That same person has also been fired from every company he has ever worked for, CRM being the major issue.
I think Airbus has a point, stay out of it. If someone want's the other way, deal with it. There's no right or wrong.
Amazing, worked for three different Airlines over the last twenty eight years flying all different manufacturer's types with different philosophies and not one recommended or required the PNF to rest his / her feet on the rudder pedals during any phase of flight.
What an odd idea to promote with no positive but many negative possible outcomes.
What an odd idea to promote with no positive but many negative possible outcomes.
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PNF should be prepared to take over rudder and sidestick - certainly - but no way there is any need to physically step onto the rudder or to touch or even to clasp the sidestick as PNF - NO GO
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In A320 forget about PNF there is no need even for PF to to keep his hand on the side stick all the time. You get it to do what you want and leave it alone. It is stabilsed platform aircraft.
Just a thought:
Do all the guys who keep their feet on the pedals when the other guy is flying also keep one foot on the brake pedal of their own car when they are driving - just in case they need to apply the brakes?
I remember being F/O in a Dash 8 having arrived on stand and the Cap put the park brake on and the engines to feather for the engines to cool down. Well, we both had our feet away from the pedals when the park brake sprang off and the aircraft lurched forward. We both accurately hit the foot brakes within about 0.0001 second!
During take-off I am not sure that PNF's feet and hands need to be actually on the controls, just nearby. I would rather they were not on the controls. I too very nearly called "STOP" on my take-off once because the rudder pedals were very stiff - as it turned out owing to the cap's size 10's !!
The Cap's have to trust a fully trained and released to line F/O (and vice-versa) without nannying him/her. If the aircraft departs from a reasonable flight path, and is not instantly corrected, then that would be the time to put feet and hands on the controls to take over.
Do all the guys who keep their feet on the pedals when the other guy is flying also keep one foot on the brake pedal of their own car when they are driving - just in case they need to apply the brakes?
I remember being F/O in a Dash 8 having arrived on stand and the Cap put the park brake on and the engines to feather for the engines to cool down. Well, we both had our feet away from the pedals when the park brake sprang off and the aircraft lurched forward. We both accurately hit the foot brakes within about 0.0001 second!
During take-off I am not sure that PNF's feet and hands need to be actually on the controls, just nearby. I would rather they were not on the controls. I too very nearly called "STOP" on my take-off once because the rudder pedals were very stiff - as it turned out owing to the cap's size 10's !!
The Cap's have to trust a fully trained and released to line F/O (and vice-versa) without nannying him/her. If the aircraft departs from a reasonable flight path, and is not instantly corrected, then that would be the time to put feet and hands on the controls to take over.
Last edited by Uplinker; 18th Oct 2013 at 19:04.
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I really hope that all the PNF Captains here don't sit there with their feet on the floor during a take off...
PNF feet on the floor for this capt. Thank you.
Blimey you guys get worked up over something so simple. 
As a Captain I most certainly do keep my feet lightly ( without restricting ) on the pedals during critical phases of flight. In our company ( and I believe Airbus SOP ) the Captain takes over control in an RTO. I'd hope that all Captains are therefore always in position and ready to take over at a split seconds notice if they decide to STOP.
I've had F/O's in the Sim let go of all controls at the RTO failure and veer off the side until I kept it straight. Another second to get my feet onto the pedals and it would have been game over.!!!!!! Damn.
During taxy as PM I do sometimes relax my feet on the floor but if I'm caught by a checker then I'll be in trouble......time and a place
Also approaching the gate the PM must also have his feet on the pedals near the brakes. Once again as a Captain I most certainly do.
Sometimes you can feel the other guys weight on the pedals as he incorrectly ( badly ) rests his feet, I then ask them to take the weight off please, problem solved.
Apart from that it's never ever been an issue in our company.
You can easily keep your feet lightly on the pedals without impairing movement and also keep you hand near the Sidestick. It's not rocket science but for Captains who are 100% responsible for the safe operation of their Aircraft ( the one they signed for ) at all times not to be ready in a split second to take over control during time critical manoeuvres is ..............just irresponsible
not to mention stupid!! 
As a Captain I most certainly do keep my feet lightly ( without restricting ) on the pedals during critical phases of flight. In our company ( and I believe Airbus SOP ) the Captain takes over control in an RTO. I'd hope that all Captains are therefore always in position and ready to take over at a split seconds notice if they decide to STOP.
I've had F/O's in the Sim let go of all controls at the RTO failure and veer off the side until I kept it straight. Another second to get my feet onto the pedals and it would have been game over.!!!!!! Damn. During taxy as PM I do sometimes relax my feet on the floor but if I'm caught by a checker then I'll be in trouble......time and a place
Also approaching the gate the PM must also have his feet on the pedals near the brakes. Once again as a Captain I most certainly do.
Sometimes you can feel the other guys weight on the pedals as he incorrectly ( badly ) rests his feet, I then ask them to take the weight off please, problem solved.
Apart from that it's never ever been an issue in our company.
You can easily keep your feet lightly on the pedals without impairing movement and also keep you hand near the Sidestick. It's not rocket science but for Captains who are 100% responsible for the safe operation of their Aircraft ( the one they signed for ) at all times not to be ready in a split second to take over control during time critical manoeuvres is ..............just irresponsible
not to mention stupid!!
Last edited by nitpicker330; 20th Oct 2013 at 06:38.
