Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Tech Log
Reload this Page >

Get off that runway - quick !

Tech Log The very best in practical technical discussion on the web

Get off that runway - quick !

Old 16th Nov 2010, 17:17
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 10,893
Get off that runway - quick !

I've just been reading a 4-page exhortation published jointly by NATS and Gatwick Airport, reminding pilots of the importance of vacating the runway expeditiously on landing and likewise not dawdling on takeoff.

It begs the question - are such campaigns necessary, and if so, do they work ? Do crews need reminding from time to time that (quote) "3 seconds lost per aircraft movement = 2 missed runway slots per hour" ?

Can anyone think of examples of similar awareness campaigns run by other airports, either in the UK or overseas ?
DaveReidUK is online now  
Old 16th Nov 2010, 17:27
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: On a foreign shore trying a new wine diet. So far, I've lost 3days!
Age: 71
Posts: 395
The best programme for contributing to everyone's awareness of the effects of runway occupancy was one circulated by Eurocontrol a few years ago called "FreeUp the Runway"

It was written by pilots for pilots.

ROT Awareness Information Package

Do crews need reminding from time to time that (quote) "3 seconds lost per aircraft movement = 2 missed runway slots per hour" ?
If they didn't, then you wouldn't need programmes like the above.
On the beach is offline  
Old 16th Nov 2010, 17:33
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 1,122
I remember in the early single runway days of the new CLK airport at Hong Kong,we had a lot of problems with dawdling pilots on arrival and departure.Arriving pilots were told to vacate say via J7 and continue on J.A large number stopped on the high speed exits,calling vacated.This was with a heavy lined up for departure,and the next arrival at 3 miles.
I would say that these campaigns are necessary,but usually don't work.
throw a dyce is offline  
Old 16th Nov 2010, 17:44
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 1,001
Vacating expeditiously

I suggest you reroute your query to the ATC Issues forum, it is further down the page. I'll bet you'll receive loads of comments there.

As a long retired LHR/EGLL Tower ATCO I hesitate to get too involved myself but it was something that constantly exercised our minds and, those of us with pilot mates (in my case, dozens with loads of airlines - a legacy of my Hercules navigator time) were always trying to push this.

Most pilots did not realise that airfield slots and runway capacity were decided by the users and BAA ( the operators) with only a small input from ATC.
Brian 48nav is offline  
Old 16th Nov 2010, 18:08
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,178
It would seem advantageous from a fuel saving and time saving point of view to start the take off manoeuvre from when one is given clearance to enter the runway, thereby maintaining the kinetic energy of the aircraft.

I can see problems with the pilot's increased workload and the runway used as the engines spool up to takeoff power, but I'm sure I have experienced this as a passenger.

Do any airlines or airports encourage the practice to save fuel and/or time ?
Mechta is offline  
Old 16th Nov 2010, 18:21
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 75
Posts: 8,286
Similar reminders have been issued over the years so it's nothing new.
HEATHROW DIRECTOR is offline  
Old 16th Nov 2010, 18:37
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bracknell, Berks, UK
Age: 48
Posts: 1,134
If you get the chance, you should take a visit to Minsk, in Belarus (my wife's Belarussian).

They have 1 flight scheduled every 45 minutes, yet a huge terminal befitting 1 flight every 5 mins. You get to taxy off the active under your own steam, and then they attach a tug and tug you another few hundred yards, then they get a bus and bus you 20 yards to a door in the bottom of the terminal where you then go through passport control (2 aisles) and into a baggage reclaim, both of which look like broom cupboards compared to the rest of the (mostly unused) terminal building.

Highly inefficient from a people-moving perspective, but probably the cheapest way to do it short of opening the doors and giving everyone a parachute!
Mike-Bracknell is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2010, 15:18
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dorset UK
Age: 66
Posts: 1,003
I've had 2 GAs in the last year at Heathrow.

1st. 27L An A330 a bit slow vacating, the controller told us to Go Around at 200 ft. although we could see the 330 turning off, and felt we could have landed after as it was daylight VMC.
However GA performed.

2nd. 09L An Uzbeck A320 (I think) landed ahead of us and rolled 3/4 of the way down the runway before vacating despite several calls from the tower to expidite. We went around from about 50 ft.

Each GA cost about 1 ton of fuel, so occasional reminders about minimum occupancy time should be of use.

Type A300-B4.
dixi188 is online now  
Old 17th Nov 2010, 17:23
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Germany
Age: 42
Posts: 394
i think nearly no crew blocks the runway or approach sector longer than neeeded, but it may happen that you due to a gust or something else float a little longer and miss an exit.

i personally always try to help with an approach where we reduce early or keep high speed for a long time whatever is needed, but i do not let rush me from atc putting the priority in saving every second instead of concentrating on a safe landing , espacially in difficult weather conditions.

aerobat77 is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2010, 21:21
  #10 (permalink)  
Sir George Cayley
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Airbus are developing Brake to Vacate. A way of deciding which runway exit you plan to use and then apply the brakes, lift dump, thrust reverse etc to achieve a stopping force just enough to achieve the goal.

Simples!

Sir George Cayley
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.