Setting Parking Brake On Runway Before Take Off
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Hot steel brakes seizing - likely. Carbon brakes? No way.
There is no technical reason why a carbon brake aircraft should not use the PB on the runway. Modern park brakes are a switch ON/OFF with no intermediate - if you leave it on it should be obvious...
There is no technical reason why a carbon brake aircraft should not use the PB on the runway. Modern park brakes are a switch ON/OFF with no intermediate - if you leave it on it should be obvious...
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This brings up a serious question to our modern day pilots. Just watching the Air Transat A330 glider into portugal.
Way to much emphasis is on checklists and less on common sense. despite a checklist, a good pilot should be scanning aircraft condition prior to all phases of flight, WORKLOAD excuse is only a scapegoat for neglence , hell the DMV would fail you if it was a common car. This is your profession, you are aviators, act like them...
Way to much emphasis is on checklists and less on common sense. despite a checklist, a good pilot should be scanning aircraft condition prior to all phases of flight, WORKLOAD excuse is only a scapegoat for neglence , hell the DMV would fail you if it was a common car. This is your profession, you are aviators, act like them...
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I never set the PB on the runway ever - Ive heard too many
reports of PBs not releaseing due stuck valves etc. It creates
a runway blockage, a tow truck call, and lots of paperwork.
reports of PBs not releaseing due stuck valves etc. It creates
a runway blockage, a tow truck call, and lots of paperwork.
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Freo, to answer your question, and not argue with anyone else's view on this matter - I never use the park brake from "off blocks" until completion of the flight.
If you roll to the runway without a problem, the brakes are off! The take off run is not the time to find out that they might not be.
I am aware of two accidents in Australia, one of them fatal and both total hull losses, due to take off when the park brakes were not fully released. On the non fatal one, a Metro, the brake was set on the runway prior to take off.
If you roll to the runway without a problem, the brakes are off! The take off run is not the time to find out that they might not be.
I am aware of two accidents in Australia, one of them fatal and both total hull losses, due to take off when the park brakes were not fully released. On the non fatal one, a Metro, the brake was set on the runway prior to take off.
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Having not done an actual count, it seems to be about split whether or not to set the PB. So, with that in mind; do as you wish if its not prohibited in your FCOM.
I do set them if its going to be a while. I just make sure the ship rolls easily before applying take off thrust.
I do set them if its going to be a while. I just make sure the ship rolls easily before applying take off thrust.
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Hold short cat 2 rwy-set brakes.Hold short intersection-set brakes.Hold short single rwy in use-set brakes.So why would u NOT set brakes when u asked to hold for take off...???!! Daft...
Consider this...cat 2 conditions,night take off,enter line up clearance given but hold for take off,due seperation. You mean u're gonna trust ANYBODY to hold those brakes with his/her size tens for those critical minutes,with little/no visual reference..??? Not me...
Same when asked to hold for take off in heavy rain with poor vis,ESPECIALLY at night. You've GOT TO BE KIDDING!!
Next u'll prolly be asking pilots to stop using autobrakes cause mebbe they could malfunction and cause a runway blockage...
Consider this...cat 2 conditions,night take off,enter line up clearance given but hold for take off,due seperation. You mean u're gonna trust ANYBODY to hold those brakes with his/her size tens for those critical minutes,with little/no visual reference..??? Not me...
Same when asked to hold for take off in heavy rain with poor vis,ESPECIALLY at night. You've GOT TO BE KIDDING!!
Next u'll prolly be asking pilots to stop using autobrakes cause mebbe they could malfunction and cause a runway blockage...
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Never set it myself as an extra thing to remember- try to keep it simple- but there have been at least two (electric) parking brake valves stuck on/ signalled "set" on the A330 to my knowledge.
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The parking brake is a control like all others - it is there to be used when appropriate. I think waiting on a runway, taxiway or on the apron for a few minutes is a good reason. If it doesn't release, you don't go. And if you believe that your acceleration on the takeoff roll is slower than normal, you reject the take-off.
PM
PM
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If I have to hold either on the runway or at the holding point for more than a couple of minutes, I stick the parking brake ON.
As Mr Piltdown said, it's a control just like the others. Anyway, on my aircraft type, we have a parking brake light shining in your eyeballs !
As Mr Piltdown said, it's a control just like the others. Anyway, on my aircraft type, we have a parking brake light shining in your eyeballs !
Unhooked has got in one.
We will see this thread develop into 5+ pages of shoulds and shouldn'ts.
At the end of 5+ pages high horses will be corralled and personal opinions and habits will be unchanged.
Its not that difficult.
We will see this thread develop into 5+ pages of shoulds and shouldn'ts.
At the end of 5+ pages high horses will be corralled and personal opinions and habits will be unchanged.
Its not that difficult.
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Originally Posted by ABO944
on my aircraft type, we have a parking brake light shining in your eyeballs !
If I want to know if the parking brake is set or released I look at the brake pressure indicator. Not many people do that.
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i do not understand the discussion...
why the hell not set the brake?
-when it will not fully release the same may also happen after initial release at the ramp and you would deal with the same problem.
-when the crew manages to mess up with forgetting to release at take off ... well, when its to hard to see the brake light, hear the config warning and feel that the aircraft is still on the brake than they are much more things to mess up at take off...
-the danger in concentrating on charts etc without parking brake and not realizing that the aircraft starts to move is much more given than a failure of the brake system of ignoring all aspects of point two i wrote.
i would say i real life you can do it for an easier life , the rest is pure theoretical what might happen...
why the hell not set the brake?
-when it will not fully release the same may also happen after initial release at the ramp and you would deal with the same problem.
-when the crew manages to mess up with forgetting to release at take off ... well, when its to hard to see the brake light, hear the config warning and feel that the aircraft is still on the brake than they are much more things to mess up at take off...
-the danger in concentrating on charts etc without parking brake and not realizing that the aircraft starts to move is much more given than a failure of the brake system of ignoring all aspects of point two i wrote.
i would say i real life you can do it for an easier life , the rest is pure theoretical what might happen...
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Set the PB when stopped, everytime, anywhere. 4 aircraft types later, I've yet to have a brake fail to release - and never heard of anyone else either who got stuck.
Stop the aircraft, set the brake and free yourself up to look at the bigger picture without worrying about moving inadvertantly.
The risk of a brake failing to release is so infintesimal that it's irrelevant compared to the potential threats arising from not having it set.
Stop the aircraft, set the brake and free yourself up to look at the bigger picture without worrying about moving inadvertantly.
The risk of a brake failing to release is so infintesimal that it's irrelevant compared to the potential threats arising from not having it set.
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[QUOTE=King on a Wing;6022758]...You mean u're gonna trust ANYBODY to hold those brakes with his/her size tens for those critical minutes,with little/no visual reference..??? [QUOTE]
So you'll happily taxi to, enter and possibly back track the runway and then blast off down that runway in those very same conditions at speeds approaching twice what your car will do but you wont trust me to keep a bit of pressure on the pedals at a standstill?!
Most strange.
So you'll happily taxi to, enter and possibly back track the runway and then blast off down that runway in those very same conditions at speeds approaching twice what your car will do but you wont trust me to keep a bit of pressure on the pedals at a standstill?!
Most strange.
Person Of Interest
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oreso on
Everyone here is missing the BIG POINT!!!...Why are you holding in position on the runway for several minutes at all???
Doesn't anyone remember America West (I believe) holding in position for minutes at LAX before it was smashed like a bug by a USAir 737-400 killing all on the metroliner and even more on the 737???
We all should learn from accidents, or at least we should...
Valujet...don't try to get a burning A/C back to the airport...EAL 66 at JFK, don't fly into windshears...etc...
I'm sure to the Metroliner pax and USAir customers it didn't matter if the metroliner had the parking brake set or not...
The lesson all of us Capt's should get from that one is don't "taxi into position and hold" and wait 2 or 3 minutes for clearance...
True the controllers screwed the pooch on that one, but the final link in the chain was lack of situational awareness by both flight crews...(ala the KLM and PAA guys in the Canary Islands)...more so on the KLM Captain...
As for the parking brake on the rwy, doesn't apply to my flts because I won't be holding "in position" that long...
Rather taxi off and wait until the controllers have the "big photo"...
And this is not a "slam" at ATC...I was one for 10 yrs before moving laterally to the cockpit...
Doesn't anyone remember America West (I believe) holding in position for minutes at LAX before it was smashed like a bug by a USAir 737-400 killing all on the metroliner and even more on the 737???
We all should learn from accidents, or at least we should...
Valujet...don't try to get a burning A/C back to the airport...EAL 66 at JFK, don't fly into windshears...etc...
I'm sure to the Metroliner pax and USAir customers it didn't matter if the metroliner had the parking brake set or not...
The lesson all of us Capt's should get from that one is don't "taxi into position and hold" and wait 2 or 3 minutes for clearance...
True the controllers screwed the pooch on that one, but the final link in the chain was lack of situational awareness by both flight crews...(ala the KLM and PAA guys in the Canary Islands)...more so on the KLM Captain...
As for the parking brake on the rwy, doesn't apply to my flts because I won't be holding "in position" that long...
Rather taxi off and wait until the controllers have the "big photo"...
And this is not a "slam" at ATC...I was one for 10 yrs before moving laterally to the cockpit...
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in 2000 icao issued a recommendation not to set the parking brake while waiting on a rwy.
last year an a320 holding short of the rwy could not release its parking brake. me and 4 other aircraft were blocked for 1 hour so it happens... in fact everything can happen with airbus aircraft
last year an a320 holding short of the rwy could not release its parking brake. me and 4 other aircraft were blocked for 1 hour so it happens... in fact everything can happen with airbus aircraft
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Down3greens, I think you need to spend a little more time reading some of the reports you mention.
Lining up is a standard procedure throughout the world, you may want to change professions if you don't have enough situational awareness when lining up.
In my part of the world we are sitting in position on a regular basis, I always set the brake, I don't play the "what if" game.
Lining up is a standard procedure throughout the world, you may want to change professions if you don't have enough situational awareness when lining up.
In my part of the world we are sitting in position on a regular basis, I always set the brake, I don't play the "what if" game.