Concorde question
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So yes, keep the questions coming, please.
We enjoy as much trying to answer them as you do asking them - maybe more...
CJ
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Gents and Gent'esses,
Regarding the rather important role of the elevons on Concorde
where there any failures during her time in the skies ?
regards,
d
Regarding the rather important role of the elevons on Concorde
where there any failures during her time in the skies ?regards,
d
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Hi all,
I've just wonder that does the Concorde use a surge tank or
some a kind of a NACA duct like on B737 for pressurize the fuel in a tank?
Also, in Concorde F/E panel around the fuel control panel there're switch call
trim pipe drain switch. Which I tried to read and figure it out but finally I don't
know what it actually do
and in which circumstance do we need to use it.
Thanks for yours reply.
Best Regards
Vortex
I've just wonder that does the Concorde use a surge tank or
some a kind of a NACA duct like on B737 for pressurize the fuel in a tank?
Also, in Concorde F/E panel around the fuel control panel there're switch call
trim pipe drain switch. Which I tried to read and figure it out but finally I don't
know what it actually do
and in which circumstance do we need to use it.Thanks for yours reply.
Best Regards
Vortex
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M2dude may already have the details of "where", "when" and "how many" at his fingertips.
Otherwise a Google, with terms such as 'AAIB', 'DGAC', 'elevon failure' and suchlike in the query, should get you the answers.
The failures were similar to the rudder failures: part of the trailing edge of an elevon parting company with the aircraft, noticeable because of vibration, but without dire consequences.
CJ
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Concorde exhibition to stay closed
Probably not the right place to post this but many people reading this thread will probably be interested
http://www.bbc. co. uk/news/uk-england-bristol-11830264
http://www.bbc. co. uk/news/uk-england-bristol-11830264
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islander539,
We ARE concerned, actually, and for the moment I don't think there is another thread on PPRuNe dealing with it.
I quote from your link:
"Mark Stewart, from Airbus, said: ....
"But the aircraft will return to its outdoor exhibition space sometime in the spring, and remain there until it moves to a new home.""
While the maintenance was indeed due, this seems to be an outright lie, so far.
After the maintenance, which will mainly consists of removing insulation that acts as a sponge for humidity, causing mould and corrosion, the aircraft is to be 'cocooned' (read: taped-off and sealed),and will be parked outside until the 'Concorde Trust' comes up with the money for a permanent museum.
Tough for the people who lost their job, deeply disheartening for the many volunteers who put their time in to show the aircraft to the public.
And a loss to us all... Alpha Fox at Filton was one of the excellent exhibits in the UK (been there, know the people concerned...).
CJ
We ARE concerned, actually, and for the moment I don't think there is another thread on PPRuNe dealing with it.
I quote from your link:
"Mark Stewart, from Airbus, said: ....
"But the aircraft will return to its outdoor exhibition space sometime in the spring, and remain there until it moves to a new home.""
While the maintenance was indeed due, this seems to be an outright lie, so far.
After the maintenance, which will mainly consists of removing insulation that acts as a sponge for humidity, causing mould and corrosion, the aircraft is to be 'cocooned' (read: taped-off and sealed),and will be parked outside until the 'Concorde Trust' comes up with the money for a permanent museum.
Tough for the people who lost their job, deeply disheartening for the many volunteers who put their time in to show the aircraft to the public.
And a loss to us all... Alpha Fox at Filton was one of the excellent exhibits in the UK (been there, know the people concerned...).
CJ
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I hope many of us are wrong Christiian and that she does indeed get a new permanent home...... Although I havent visited AC yet in Manchester, the permanent enclosure for her looks great ( although once again, some great hard working 'Concordians' lost their jobs...). One of the saddest images I recall was seeing our beloved icon stuck on a barge in NY..engines removed allowing you to view right 'through', whilst another engine lay covered in a tarp - it was hard to think about all the work that was done to produce such a magnificant machine and to think that in the end, this was all that could be done to inspire future generations of thinkers to achieve even greater feats. A world speed record holder for a transatlantic passenger flight ( we even had Leslie Scott with us who was the pilot on that remarkable flight ) - much much more should be done to remind the youth of today just what was achieved and to instill those qualities into future generations. As it was once said.... "If a man dwells on the past, then he robs the present. But if a man ignores the past, he may rob the future. The seeds of our destiny are nurtured by the roots of our past"
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Just finally getting around to reading 'Not much of an engineer' - What a fabulous read. Simply cannot put it down. At least I have 4 days ahead to finish it. Amazing! But is it just me and the fact that I am getting older ???? I know the mind tends to romanticise the past but as I read it, it tugs at the heart to see what we had then and where we are now. Maybe I am out of the picture nowadays and things are not as bleak as they may appear. In the book, Sir Stan mentions how he was disappointed when seeing the changes in University life compared to his years. The respect, the discipline, the uniforms !…a different era. Whenever I visit the ol’ country nowadays, I feel the same way. Its as if the spark has simply been snuffed out. Its hard to listen to some of the views and ideas and biases and negativity that seem to be the norm nowadays. I simply don’t feel that same sense of pride, or dedication or hope that seemed to envelope the country in the 60’s ( although I was just a nipper in the 60's I loved Concorde ! )…. In terms of aviation, it is truly amazing what was achieved by these brilliant engineers / scientists. For such a small country, wow…just look back and see what was achieved. Someone please tell me I have been away too long and it is not as bad as it appears ….! But alas, I feel it will take something much greater to arouse that British passion once more…then again, maybe the world really is a different place nowadays…and maybe 50 years from now, people will look back at the early part of 21st century with awe and say how things were so different ‘then’… Sorry if I am blabbering here, but reading the autobiographies of such amazing gentlemen like Sir Stan does indeed arouse that sense of pride and passion that acted as a catalyst for such perfection and advancement….
Reading this particular thread has been wonderful. I used to frequent PPRuNE many moons ago with great enthusiasm until the ego’s of many turned it into a ‘professional’ Vs ‘SLF’ forum… Ask a question that maybe wasn’t up to the ‘standards’ of many of the posters and bam!! You were crucified. I still see it now, even when the forum is titled ‘Rumours….and news’ - Frightening to think some of these folk could be piloting my plane one day !!! so coming to this thread and seeing the open arms of folk who obviously have a great deal of knowledge and who welcome the rest of us who are newbies ( but with a great deal of enthusiasm ! ) is really appreciated. Wish I could meet more folk like yourselves. Maybe then my pessimism would dwindle in favour of optimism!!!
I so wish I had the ability to connect all the remaining people who worked on Concorde in some way - whether they were engineers, flight crew, cabin crew, designers, tea makers...! Whatever their role with Concorde was - they were all part of the dream - wherever they are now - surely in todays world it cant be that difficult ??? You know, as every year passes, we will lose more or more ties to this icon. And those great stories and experiences that many may cherish ( and would love to share ) will be lost to the rest of us. One day we shall wake up and realise they are all gone. All we will have are memories ( and a few autobiographies ) of these great folk.
Best wishes to you all. Amazing that Concorde still connects many folk across many continents still, and she isn’t even in the skies any more..
Truly remarkable.
Regards,
d
Reading this particular thread has been wonderful. I used to frequent PPRuNE many moons ago with great enthusiasm until the ego’s of many turned it into a ‘professional’ Vs ‘SLF’ forum… Ask a question that maybe wasn’t up to the ‘standards’ of many of the posters and bam!! You were crucified. I still see it now, even when the forum is titled ‘Rumours….and news’ - Frightening to think some of these folk could be piloting my plane one day !!! so coming to this thread and seeing the open arms of folk who obviously have a great deal of knowledge and who welcome the rest of us who are newbies ( but with a great deal of enthusiasm ! ) is really appreciated. Wish I could meet more folk like yourselves. Maybe then my pessimism would dwindle in favour of optimism!!!
I so wish I had the ability to connect all the remaining people who worked on Concorde in some way - whether they were engineers, flight crew, cabin crew, designers, tea makers...! Whatever their role with Concorde was - they were all part of the dream - wherever they are now - surely in todays world it cant be that difficult ??? You know, as every year passes, we will lose more or more ties to this icon. And those great stories and experiences that many may cherish ( and would love to share ) will be lost to the rest of us. One day we shall wake up and realise they are all gone. All we will have are memories ( and a few autobiographies ) of these great folk.
Best wishes to you all. Amazing that Concorde still connects many folk across many continents still, and she isn’t even in the skies any more..
Truly remarkable.
Regards,
d
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Have read this thread now the last days with joy and thought long to put down a question if you may allow me.
When still in the skies us as operations loadcontroler on a different station but able to browse through the CDG passenger lists often checked for "the famous pax" on board the Lady (what was the nick for her at AF as someone (ChristiaanJ?) mentioned at AF the Concorde was a "he"?) I learned that a Concorde flight needed more than one loadsheet for the flight due to the complex fuelling system and the extreme move of the CG. Don't know if this is gossip or there's a true part in it. Did you get, except from the standard MACs for ZFW, TOW and LAW also a TOC MAC (maybe?).
Just wanted to say thanks to you all for the great time reading this thread.
Trabbi
When still in the skies us as operations loadcontroler on a different station but able to browse through the CDG passenger lists often checked for "the famous pax" on board the Lady (what was the nick for her at AF as someone (ChristiaanJ?) mentioned at AF the Concorde was a "he"?) I learned that a Concorde flight needed more than one loadsheet for the flight due to the complex fuelling system and the extreme move of the CG. Don't know if this is gossip or there's a true part in it. Did you get, except from the standard MACs for ZFW, TOW and LAW also a TOC MAC (maybe?).
Just wanted to say thanks to you all for the great time reading this thread.
Trabbi
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Channel 4 video
Just managed to locate and download a copy of the Channel 4 program "Last flight of Concorde"
Well worth watching if you havent already seen it with lots of good archive footage.
Just one question for our resident experts, why were the Olympus 593 s so smoky to start with, did they use excess fuel to help with cooling as some petrol engines do or was there some design feature which caused the smoke. It seeems to have been cured in later engines
rod
Well worth watching if you havent already seen it with lots of good archive footage.
Just one question for our resident experts, why were the Olympus 593 s so smoky to start with, did they use excess fuel to help with cooling as some petrol engines do or was there some design feature which caused the smoke. It seeems to have been cured in later engines
rod
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The 593s on the prototypes had eight separate combustion chambers, and used fuel injectors ; the smoke resulted from the less-than-perfect combustion (as on many earlier aircraft types).
The 593s on the pre-prod and the later production aircraft had a single 'annular' combustion chamber and fuel vaporisers (the fuel entered the gas stream fully vaporised rather than as a fine spray).
While it didn't totally eliminate the smoke (as any take-off video shows...), it did make a huge difference.
It was unfortunate, that the new engines were not there in time for the prototypes, so that during the prototypes' world tours they acquired a repution of 'Smoky Joes', and gave an un-needed and undeserved boost to the tree-huggers of the time.
CJ
PS Here's another explanation....
(And no, the drawing isn't mine)
Last edited by ChristiaanJ; 25th Nov 2010 at 15:57.
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In French, it is 'un avion' (m.) and hence 'le Concorde' .... I repeatedly had to explain the use of "she" in English to French friends.
I don't think she really had a nickname within AF ; ' l'Oiseau Blanc ' (the White Bird) was/is a term more used by spotters and journos.
CJ
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Reading this thread has encouraged me to rewatch my Concorde ITVV DVD. During one of the checklists the term TLA is read out as part of the checklist and the reply was something like "13 degrees set"
Am I right in assuming that TLA stands for throttle lever angle? and if so did setting the throttles to a certain angle then give a known thrust setting?
Regards
Nick
Am I right in assuming that TLA stands for throttle lever angle? and if so did setting the throttles to a certain angle then give a known thrust setting?
Regards
Nick
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Nick,
I think it refers to setting a 'bug' for the TLA during noise reduction.
Have a google for "Concorde TLA" and poke around a bit, I think you'll find far more far sooner than I can help you with......
CJ
I think it refers to setting a 'bug' for the TLA during noise reduction.
Have a google for "Concorde TLA" and poke around a bit, I think you'll find far more far sooner than I can help you with......
CJ
Nick Thomas
... Am I right in assuming that TLA stands for throttle lever angle? ...
Yes. TLA was a TLA for throttle lever angle.
... did setting the throttles to a certain angle then give a known thrust setting? ...
Yes, the calculated thrust required at the noise abatement point. The TLA was calculated by the NHP (as part of the take-off performance calculations) and later cross-checked by the Captain and F/E.
I don’t know whether it is audible on the DVD, but the checklist question was “Clock and TLA bugs”.
If not already set, the Captain and F/O would set the noise abatement time on their respective (countdown) clocks and the F/E would cross-checked them, and, if not already set, the F/E would set the TLA bugs (on an engraved scale on either side of the throttle quadrant) to the noise abatement setting and the Captain and F/O would cross-check him.
The checklist response was ”Set”.
Best Regards
Bellerophon
... Am I right in assuming that TLA stands for throttle lever angle? ...
Yes. TLA was a TLA for throttle lever angle.
... did setting the throttles to a certain angle then give a known thrust setting? ...
Yes, the calculated thrust required at the noise abatement point. The TLA was calculated by the NHP (as part of the take-off performance calculations) and later cross-checked by the Captain and F/E.
I don’t know whether it is audible on the DVD, but the checklist question was “Clock and TLA bugs”.
If not already set, the Captain and F/O would set the noise abatement time on their respective (countdown) clocks and the F/E would cross-checked them, and, if not already set, the F/E would set the TLA bugs (on an engraved scale on either side of the throttle quadrant) to the noise abatement setting and the Captain and F/O would cross-check him.
The checklist response was ”Set”.
Best Regards
Bellerophon
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Thanks all for your answers. Bellerophon when I typed my TLA question I could not remember the exact checklist phrase but on reading your answer I am certain that "Clocks and TLA bugs" is clearly said.
It never crossed my mind that there was a connection between Clocks and TLA. Of course if I had given it a little more thought I would have realised that they must be connected on the checklist for a good reason.
The other thing I noticed on the DVD was that the FE said that the brake pressure gauge didn't provide a reading untill about FL 450. I just wondered why that was?
Regards
Nick
It never crossed my mind that there was a connection between Clocks and TLA. Of course if I had given it a little more thought I would have realised that they must be connected on the checklist for a good reason.
The other thing I noticed on the DVD was that the FE said that the brake pressure gauge didn't provide a reading untill about FL 450. I just wondered why that was?
Regards
Nick