circling approach
circling approach
Hi all,
I noticed the other day ,while i was quite bored in the cruise, that you're able to do a circling approach in sharm off of runway 04L but not off of 04R.
Why might this be? The runways are very close together and i assume you would take the same path in the circuit to land at the other end of either runway so why no circle off 04R?
thanks
I noticed the other day ,while i was quite bored in the cruise, that you're able to do a circling approach in sharm off of runway 04L but not off of 04R.
Why might this be? The runways are very close together and i assume you would take the same path in the circuit to land at the other end of either runway so why no circle off 04R?
thanks
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According to my (a little old like me) charts, the 'Circling' chart (04R) would appear to be actually a 'cloudbreak' and has a restriction on nothing west of 04L and although you could easily land 'straight in' on 04L from the 'Circling 04R' you cannot find an approach for that. I have never understood the reason for naming it that way.
The ILS and V/D 04L do in fact have a circle (with a higher minimum than the circle 04R) and again to the east of 04L only, so as I read it you CAN circle off 04L from either an ILS or V/D 04L but NOT from the 'CIRCLING' approach '04R' - crazy - no? I just think something got lost in the translation from Egyptian. You can see why they don't allow circling left of the field (resists comment on "xxxx" and Terps
)
The ILS and V/D 04L do in fact have a circle (with a higher minimum than the circle 04R) and again to the east of 04L only, so as I read it you CAN circle off 04L from either an ILS or V/D 04L but NOT from the 'CIRCLING' approach '04R' - crazy - no? I just think something got lost in the translation from Egyptian
. You can see why they don't allow circling left of the field (resists comment on "xxxx" and Terps)
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Hi,
The Jepp plate for Sharm VOR App 04R (Aug 09) is now called VOR DME 04R and has no circling data printed. However the ILS 04L & VOR 04L have.
There would be absolutely no advantage to making a circling App from 04R because you'd use the same VOR (but a slightly different radial), and once visual you'd be able to see both runways anyway.
The Jepp plate for Sharm VOR App 04R (Aug 09) is now called VOR DME 04R and has no circling data printed. However the ILS 04L & VOR 04L have.
There would be absolutely no advantage to making a circling App from 04R because you'd use the same VOR (but a slightly different radial), and once visual you'd be able to see both runways anyway.
Last edited by rudderrudderrat; 4th Aug 2010 at 14:18. Reason: can't tell the difference between save / preview & typo
first of all thanks for the reply.
i think there is some confusion with my post, sometimes its hard to explain in writing but let me try...
Now as far as i know a circling approach is an approach from one runway to a landing on another runway which has an alignment more than 30degrees from the approach runway.
i.e approach 04L. circle and land 22R or 22L
Cloud break is to approach on one runway to land on another runway which has an alignment less than 30degrees from approach runway.
i.e approach 04L. break cloud and land 04R
Now my plates have a circling minima for 04L onto 22L/R but not off 04R to 22L/R.
Why?
if we have to fly east of the field to circle onto 22L/R why can't i do this off of 04R?
Surely there's no problem or have i missed something...?
ICAO ident HESH
i think there is some confusion with my post, sometimes its hard to explain in writing but let me try...
Now as far as i know a circling approach is an approach from one runway to a landing on another runway which has an alignment more than 30degrees from the approach runway.
i.e approach 04L. circle and land 22R or 22L
Cloud break is to approach on one runway to land on another runway which has an alignment less than 30degrees from approach runway.
i.e approach 04L. break cloud and land 04R
Now my plates have a circling minima for 04L onto 22L/R but not off 04R to 22L/R.
Why?
if we have to fly east of the field to circle onto 22L/R why can't i do this off of 04R?
Surely there's no problem or have i missed something...?
ICAO ident HESH
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Note they provide a VOR IAP for 4L and a different one for 4R. They can't do that with the ILS, of course.
They must have some operational reason to not want you out to the east of the airport nor do they want traffic for 4R crossing the path of 4L. Don't ask me why but that is all that seems apparent to me.
They must have some operational reason to not want you out to the east of the airport nor do they want traffic for 4R crossing the path of 4L. Don't ask me why but that is all that seems apparent to me.
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You haven't said which plate/approach is which, so it is difficult working off 'old 'plates here. Any chance of scanning and posting images? The confusion for me is that my 'Circling' plate is labelled 'Circling 04R' and not just 'Circling'
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Interesting - I'm looking at the latest (28 Aug 09) Jep plates for VOR DME 04 L and VOR DME 04 R and I'm darned if I can see why you can circle east of 04 L and not 04 R. It's obvious why you can't circle to the west!
The only explanation I can think of is simply that the circling minima box for 04 R has been left blank - by mistake perhaps?
The only explanation I can think of is simply that the circling minima box for 04 R has been left blank - by mistake perhaps?
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I don't have the charts to hand, but is it possible that the Pans-Ops 'buffer' on the circling area from 04R east of the field would infringe Israeli airspace?
Israeli airspace lies close to the East, but not sure of the distance... Also although 04L/R aren't a huge distance apart, it could be thats the critical distance which puts it over the border - just an idea...
30W
Israeli airspace lies close to the East, but not sure of the distance... Also although 04L/R aren't a huge distance apart, it could be thats the critical distance which puts it over the border - just an idea...
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Hi,
04L & 04R are parallel, the same length (10,108 ft) and about 2,000 ft apart.
The ILS QDM for 04L is 040 degrees, the VOR App is 039 degs. The VOR App 04R is 035 degs. The circling minima MDA is 1100 (957) ft.
What advantage would there be if there was a circling App published from 04R?
The published circling approaches from 04L will satisfy everything needed for a landing on either 22L or 22R.
04L & 04R are parallel, the same length (10,108 ft) and about 2,000 ft apart.
The ILS QDM for 04L is 040 degrees, the VOR App is 039 degs. The VOR App 04R is 035 degs. The circling minima MDA is 1100 (957) ft.
What advantage would there be if there was a circling App published from 04R?
The published circling approaches from 04L will satisfy everything needed for a landing on either 22L or 22R.
Last edited by rudderrudderrat; 5th Aug 2010 at 10:06.
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rudderrudderrat:
Not being locked into landing on 04R if circumstances change during the final approach. The circling authorization provides an option for unforseen circumstances.
The way these procedures are charted, the procedures specialist is limiting operational options without any apparent justification.
What advantage would there be if there was a circling App published from 04R?
The way these procedures are charted, the procedures specialist is limiting operational options without any apparent justification.
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Hi aterpster.
If the weather was good enough to do a circling approach from 04L onto 22L /R then you could do a side step onto 04R if necessary. I still can't see any advantage if there was a circling App from 04R.
If the weather was good enough to do a circling approach from 04L onto 22L /R then you could do a side step onto 04R if necessary. I still can't see any advantage if there was a circling App from 04R.
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rudderrudderrat:
I can only speak to U.S. rules, which would apply to a U.S. air carrier operating at this airport.
First, because there are no side-step minimums charted, you can use only circling minimums. Second, because there are no circling minimums you either land straight-in or miss the approach. Third, if Egypt allows visual approaches above certain minimums, then go for it.
If the weather was good enough to do a circling approach from 04L onto 22L /R then you could do a side step onto 04R if necessary. I still can't see any advantage if there was a circling App from 04R.
First, because there are no side-step minimums charted, you can use only circling minimums. Second, because there are no circling minimums you either land straight-in or miss the approach. Third, if Egypt allows visual approaches above certain minimums, then go for it.
