A320 Overweight landing
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A320 Overweight landing
Hi Guys,
With most emergencies I have been trained to use 'Landing Distance Config FULL without AutoBrake' and then apply the LD factor for the failure from QRH 2.32.
scenario:
after you take off a PAX has emergency situation and requires to get medical emergency immediately on the ground. You are heavy and considerably above the MLW. You check the overweight Landing Procedure in QRH 2.25 and you see you are above 'Max weight for go-around CONF 3'. Therefore as it states, you must shoot the approach in CONF 3 and go around in CONF 1+F. There are no aircraft defects.
Therefore as i understand in emergencies when we need to calculate landing distance we use 'L/D Conf Full without AB' and then apply failure factor. But in this case 1). There is no failure factor to add and 2). We will be in Conf 3. Therefore do we apply 'LD Config 3 w/out AB' instead?
If someone could just advise me on how to perform accuaretly the landing distance calculation and VAPP calculation for this case.
Many thanks,
C4
With most emergencies I have been trained to use 'Landing Distance Config FULL without AutoBrake' and then apply the LD factor for the failure from QRH 2.32.
scenario:
after you take off a PAX has emergency situation and requires to get medical emergency immediately on the ground. You are heavy and considerably above the MLW. You check the overweight Landing Procedure in QRH 2.25 and you see you are above 'Max weight for go-around CONF 3'. Therefore as it states, you must shoot the approach in CONF 3 and go around in CONF 1+F. There are no aircraft defects.
Therefore as i understand in emergencies when we need to calculate landing distance we use 'L/D Conf Full without AB' and then apply failure factor. But in this case 1). There is no failure factor to add and 2). We will be in Conf 3. Therefore do we apply 'LD Config 3 w/out AB' instead?
If someone could just advise me on how to perform accuaretly the landing distance calculation and VAPP calculation for this case.
Many thanks,
C4
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Hi,
look at bottom QRH 4.02 & 4.03. it is written to use in flight.
the case in then very simple, if you plan a Flaps 3 approach & landing due to go around limitation, use 4.02, no failure, no factor. it is written as well there is no margin on those distances. the FAA recommends a 15 % margin on that. all that for the legal side.
now you've got an emergency and the runway is just enough long to contain the distance calculated above, it might finish with a global emergency for gear fire (full braking) or overrun
Sound side now, you take 4.04 autobrake low and find the adequate runway
look at bottom QRH 4.02 & 4.03. it is written to use in flight.
the case in then very simple, if you plan a Flaps 3 approach & landing due to go around limitation, use 4.02, no failure, no factor. it is written as well there is no margin on those distances. the FAA recommends a 15 % margin on that. all that for the legal side.
now you've got an emergency and the runway is just enough long to contain the distance calculated above, it might finish with a global emergency for gear fire (full braking) or overrun
Sound side now, you take 4.04 autobrake low and find the adequate runway
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Originally Posted by channel4
Therefore as i understand in emergencies when we need to calculate landing distance we use 'L/D Conf Full without AB' and then apply failure factor.
Bomb on board, crew incapacitation, medical situation...could lead to declare an "emergency", but even though overweight landing is an abnormal operation, it must not be treated like an in-flight failure.
If time permits, FCOM 2.03.20 p2 (manual landing distance with autobrake) will give you a realistic actual landing distance in CONF3 + AUTO BRK regarding your scenario.
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Hi Lamboo1,
Have a look at the "Over Weight Landing" QRH checklist. If you are above max landing weight for the Temp & Alt - it says to go from F3 to F 1+F on the GA.
I agree with the previous posters with regards looking at FCOM landing distances with autobrake and find an adequately long runway.
The aircraft is perfectly sound - there is no Land ASAP, only 1 passenger is ill and needs medical attention, the other 150+ passengers and crew don't need to be exposed to any extra risk.
Have a look at the "Over Weight Landing" QRH checklist. If you are above max landing weight for the Temp & Alt - it says to go from F3 to F 1+F on the GA.
I agree with the previous posters with regards looking at FCOM landing distances with autobrake and find an adequately long runway.
The aircraft is perfectly sound - there is no Land ASAP, only 1 passenger is ill and needs medical attention, the other 150+ passengers and crew don't need to be exposed to any extra risk.
Last edited by rudderrudderrat; 2nd Aug 2010 at 10:06. Reason: typo
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Lamboo1, the retract 2 steps procedure was added at some point. Came with a JAR change, I heard.
shortfuel, any overweight landing is an emergency, since you're violating a limitation of the aircraft prescribed by a FAR (landing loads in 25.473, though it's technically 25.1519)
In any case, landing distance will be adequate with your takeoff weight and configuration. RTO performance is limiting in that regard. The limiting factor with almost all airplanes, and I know on the Airbus, is single engine missed approach climb gradient (FAR 25.1001 and 25.121d).
The urgency of the emergency (for medical emergencies and bomb on board) should be weighed against the probability that you will need to conduct a single engine go-around at a low altitude.
shortfuel, any overweight landing is an emergency, since you're violating a limitation of the aircraft prescribed by a FAR (landing loads in 25.473, though it's technically 25.1519)
In any case, landing distance will be adequate with your takeoff weight and configuration. RTO performance is limiting in that regard. The limiting factor with almost all airplanes, and I know on the Airbus, is single engine missed approach climb gradient (FAR 25.1001 and 25.121d).
The urgency of the emergency (for medical emergencies and bomb on board) should be weighed against the probability that you will need to conduct a single engine go-around at a low altitude.
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catiamonkey,
we're talking A320 here...as far as A320 operations go, overweight landing is not an emergency procedure in the JAR world at least. I don't know/care about FAA.
And guess what, Airbus put the overweight landing is the 'Abnormal proc' QRH section.
The manufacturer says you're ok to exceptionally do overweight landing AND aircraft will even be dispatchable with no further action on next flight if you touch with a V/S<6ft/sec.
I've never heard pilots declaring emergency/distress just because they were about to carry out an overweight landing...
we're talking A320 here...as far as A320 operations go, overweight landing is not an emergency procedure in the JAR world at least. I don't know/care about FAA.
And guess what, Airbus put the overweight landing is the 'Abnormal proc' QRH section.
The manufacturer says you're ok to exceptionally do overweight landing AND aircraft will even be dispatchable with no further action on next flight if you touch with a V/S<6ft/sec.
I've never heard pilots declaring emergency/distress just because they were about to carry out an overweight landing...
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Airbus Performance
Dear Channel4, i see your based in Munich. I dont know what max take off weights you operate to, or what engines you have but have a close look at that chart again. I imagine it would be very rare that it actually would limit you to Conf 3.
I know for the A320 i've used, MTOW 75500kgs and CFM engines, i would have to be at 40'c degrees centigrade & airport elevation 3000ft before i exceeded MTOW (75500kgs). (A321's , a bit less in temp & elev.)
I would say normally not a problem in Europe.
I know for the A320 i've used, MTOW 75500kgs and CFM engines, i would have to be at 40'c degrees centigrade & airport elevation 3000ft before i exceeded MTOW (75500kgs). (A321's , a bit less in temp & elev.)
I would say normally not a problem in Europe.
