PAR approach qualification
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It was awhile ago (early 90's), however during my IR training I did PAR approaches before doing my first ILS. The approaches (practice - down to the MAP) were done at Travis AFB (KSUU??), and were no problem in both a single and a light twin.
As for qualifications needed to shoot a PAR approach, my instructor briefed me on the ground as to what to expect and how to do it. Once vectored to the approach, we just followed the instructions of the controllers down to the MAP and then went missed. The KSUU controllers were always great (my training was mostly done at KCCR). Between my base and Napa, they were constantly dealing with a LOT of training activity around their airspace, and always handled it with patience and professionalism. I was able to visit Travis approach once....but this TOO has probably gone away now!
I remember reading an article in Flying a long time back about a student pilot on a night solo flight, who became lost. He ended up flying into marginal VFR wx. He got himself out by requesting a practice PAR (somewhere back east), and once back into solid VFR, AND re-oriented, he toodled off back to base without incident.
As for qualifications needed to shoot a PAR approach, my instructor briefed me on the ground as to what to expect and how to do it. Once vectored to the approach, we just followed the instructions of the controllers down to the MAP and then went missed. The KSUU controllers were always great (my training was mostly done at KCCR). Between my base and Napa, they were constantly dealing with a LOT of training activity around their airspace, and always handled it with patience and professionalism. I was able to visit Travis approach once....but this TOO has probably gone away now!
I remember reading an article in Flying a long time back about a student pilot on a night solo flight, who became lost. He ended up flying into marginal VFR wx. He got himself out by requesting a practice PAR (somewhere back east), and once back into solid VFR, AND re-oriented, he toodled off back to base without incident.
Last edited by PA-28-180; 11th Jul 2010 at 04:02. Reason: Add information to more directly answer question...
That's correct, KSUU. But probably gone now, few USAF bases in the US have PAR capability anymore. USN and CAF bases still do, for the most part. CFB Trenton has given me any number of them on training flights.
GF
GF
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Thanks for the confirmation GF! Actually, I'm really sorry to hear about the PAR facilities going away. I thought, and still believe, that it was a great part of my training back then, and a great alternative to an ILS. I guess GPS/RNAV is taking over....?
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ok, i hear nothing butī: itīs easy, donīt worry, fly to 200ft...
Iīll ask for a PAR with the visibility, rain, and some crosswind/bumpiness
dialled in at my nex sim opportunity. Have to see for myself.
Thanks a lot for the input,
Klauss
Iīll ask for a PAR with the visibility, rain, and some crosswind/bumpiness
dialled in at my nex sim opportunity. Have to see for myself.
Thanks a lot for the input,
Klauss
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Is it legal for civilian aircraft these days to use GCA/PAR in the normal course of events? Of course in an emergency anything goes. Ask because I was under the impression, wrongly maybe, that it had been given the thumbs down because it was not a pilot interpreted aid.
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Klauss, you will need a sim instructor who can give a realistic "Patter", there are some tapes still on the internet of the Berlin Airlift controllers talk downs, these will give you the very best examples of how it should sound, these guys were the very best! Also would suggest you skip the X wind and bumps till you have flown one, hand fly, manual thrust, and have fun!
In Australia, the instrument rating required each individual approach to be certified in the licence. You had to complete the NDB, but the rest were optional - ILS, LLZ, VOR, DME (the DME approach an Australian thing, now discontinued).
When I came to the UK, I asked about SRA approaches, and certification, and discovered that individual approaches aren't certified in Europe, which I found a bit surprising. My first (and subsequent) SRAs where therefore completed with no training whatsoever - never even seen a chart for one, until I flew it.
When I came to the UK, I asked about SRA approaches, and certification, and discovered that individual approaches aren't certified in Europe, which I found a bit surprising. My first (and subsequent) SRAs where therefore completed with no training whatsoever - never even seen a chart for one, until I flew it.
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And you did it, did you not? You can do a PAR if you know how to fly an a/c; you might need practice to do it well manually, though. An SRE is more difficult IMHO.
And you did it, did you not? You can do a PAR if you know how to fly an a/c; you might need practice to do it well manually, though. An SRE is more difficult IMHO.
Commencing conditions e.g. Callsign M52 level at 2500ft AAL 30deg intercept from left most configuring done and it goes something like this:
ATC: M52 Turn left heading 270
M52: M52 Left heading 270
ATC: M52 slightly left of the centreline turn right 2deg heading 272
M52: M52 Heading 272
ATC: M52 approaching the glidepath do not acknowledge further instructions.
ATC: M52 Commence descent now for a 3 degree glidepath.
ATC: On the centreline turn left 2deg heading 270.
ATC: On centreline, slightly above the glidepath, adjust your rate of descent.
ATC: M52 on the glidepath on the centreline at 5 miles from touchdown, check your gear down and locked.
ATC: Slightly right of the centreline turn left heading 268
ATC (on tx & patch to tower): M52 at 3 miles to land TWR: Clear to land
ATC: Slightly below the glidepath adjust your rate of descent
ATC: On glidepath on centreline turn right heading 270
ATC: Approaching decision height, look up and take over visually, talkdown continues (that's the good slightly cheaty bit)
Leavesden used to do a good talkdown which I used when LHR weren't taking air taxis.
However, doing a talkdown on say, a Phantom with the lift augmentation u/s or a Lightning you wouldn't have time to get all that chatter in at a normal relaxed pace
ATC: M52 Turn left heading 270
M52: M52 Left heading 270
ATC: M52 slightly left of the centreline turn right 2deg heading 272
M52: M52 Heading 272
ATC: M52 approaching the glidepath do not acknowledge further instructions.
ATC: M52 Commence descent now for a 3 degree glidepath.
ATC: On the centreline turn left 2deg heading 270.
ATC: On centreline, slightly above the glidepath, adjust your rate of descent.
ATC: M52 on the glidepath on the centreline at 5 miles from touchdown, check your gear down and locked.
ATC: Slightly right of the centreline turn left heading 268
ATC (on tx & patch to tower): M52 at 3 miles to land TWR: Clear to land
ATC: Slightly below the glidepath adjust your rate of descent
ATC: On glidepath on centreline turn right heading 270
ATC: Approaching decision height, look up and take over visually, talkdown continues (that's the good slightly cheaty bit)
Leavesden used to do a good talkdown which I used when LHR weren't taking air taxis.
However, doing a talkdown on say, a Phantom with the lift augmentation u/s or a Lightning you wouldn't have time to get all that chatter in at a normal relaxed pace
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ATC: M52 Turn left heading 270
M52: M52 Left heading 270
ATC: M52 slightly left of the centreline turn right 2deg heading 272
M52: M52 Heading 272
ATC: M52 approaching the glidepath do not acknowledge further instructions.
ATC: M52 Commence descent now for a 3 degree glidepath.
ATC: On the centreline turn left 2deg heading 270.
ATC: On centreline, slightly above the glidepath, adjust your rate of descent.
ATC: M52 on the glidepath on the centreline at 5 miles from touchdown, check your gear down and locked.
ATC: Slightly right of the centreline turn left heading 268
ATC (on tx & patch to tower): M52 at 3 miles to land TWR: Clear to land
ATC: Slightly below the glidepath adjust your rate of descent
ATC: On glidepath on centreline turn right heading 270
ATC: Approaching decision height, look up and take over visually, talkdown continues (that's the good slightly cheaty bit)
M52: M52 Left heading 270
ATC: M52 slightly left of the centreline turn right 2deg heading 272
M52: M52 Heading 272
ATC: M52 approaching the glidepath do not acknowledge further instructions.
ATC: M52 Commence descent now for a 3 degree glidepath.
ATC: On the centreline turn left 2deg heading 270.
ATC: On centreline, slightly above the glidepath, adjust your rate of descent.
ATC: M52 on the glidepath on the centreline at 5 miles from touchdown, check your gear down and locked.
ATC: Slightly right of the centreline turn left heading 268
ATC (on tx & patch to tower): M52 at 3 miles to land TWR: Clear to land
ATC: Slightly below the glidepath adjust your rate of descent
ATC: On glidepath on centreline turn right heading 270
ATC: Approaching decision height, look up and take over visually, talkdown continues (that's the good slightly cheaty bit)
They used to say "Nice approach" but that was done away with in the interests of political correctness.
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If you are flying for an airline (US) the PAR must be in your ops specs. My outfit has both captains and F/Os demonstrate proficiency in the sim. We see them mostly at USN bases now a days but a certified controller is not always available. An interesting side note is that you can initiate the approach even if the field is below minimums if the PAR is flown with an ILS tuned. (FAR 121) Watch the movie "Strategic Air Command" to see Jimmy Stewart fly the GCA (old guys name for the PAR) into Kadena in a B47. Great fun.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Originally Posted by Basil
However, doing a talkdown on say, a Phantom with the lift augmentation u/s or a Lightning you wouldn't have time to get all that chatter in at a normal relaxed pace
There once (allegedly) was a Harrier that came to the hover during a PAR and then backed up the glidepath. I understand the controller spent several months in a Sanatorium
I was never given any civil aviation PAR training.
BOAC - you got it!
When I was on a ground tour in ATC at Wyton I flew a Chipmunk in one day and did all my intermediate approach turns at considerably more than Rate 1 to wind up my unsuspecting ATC colleagues
BOAC - you got it!
When I was on a ground tour in ATC at Wyton I flew a Chipmunk in one day and did all my intermediate approach turns at considerably more than Rate 1 to wind up my unsuspecting ATC colleagues
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I always wondered why they are called PARs. An SRA is flown using a SAR and a PRA is flown with a PAR.
A PRA is conducted with precision approach radar, a separate radar with a scanning vertical and separate horizontal beam, it has a short range and is only used for precision approaches:
An SRA is conducted using Secondary Surveillance Radar (ie. your transponder return on ATC's standard traffic radar), it is a non-precision approach (so has a much higher minima).
An SRA is conducted using Secondary Surveillance Radar (ie. your transponder return on ATC's standard traffic radar), it is a non-precision approach (so has a much higher minima).
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Can't speak for non-UK countries, but
is quite wrong - it can ONLY be conducted using primary surveillance radar.
NS
An SRA is conducted using Secondary Surveillance Radar
NS
