Traffic Pattern Altitudes & methodology
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Traffic Pattern Altitudes & methodology
traffic pattern altitudes?
the current idea of one altitude for slower piston planes and 1500'agl for turbines makes sense to me.
too many random traffic pattern altitudes would have planes descending onto other planes.
we are talking about airport traffic patterns (as we call them in the USA) and europeans seem to call circuits.
the current idea of one altitude for slower piston planes and 1500'agl for turbines makes sense to me.
too many random traffic pattern altitudes would have planes descending onto other planes.
we are talking about airport traffic patterns (as we call them in the USA) and europeans seem to call circuits.
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PTH...."the current idea of one altitude for slower piston planes and 1500'agl for turbines makes sense to me....."
I would agree, IF everyone follows this! My own war story practically led to me becoming a cliched statistic. Pattern entry into an uncontrolled field. Traffic was a cherokee in closed traffic.
The cherokee SHOULD have been at 800 AGL -the published TPA (the field was Nut Tree in northern California). I was approaching from the east, with a northbound runway in use, and had just terminated flight following with Travis Approach. My plan, and as I announced on CTAF, was to cross over the middle of the field at 1,500 AGL and then descend and turn to make a 45 degree entry to downwind once traffic was in sight.
This should have given me a very comfortable 6-700 feet clearance HOWEVER, the other cherokee was WAY above TPA and VERY suddenly, I had what seemed to be a windscreen full of another airplane! I pulled up and went to the right...he went to the left. I have NO idea how much separation we had, but to this day, I would swear I could count rivets! (In all honesty, it probably wasn't THAT close, but I sure grabbed a whole lot of seat cushion!)
(On the ground, I talked to the other guy - a CFI and his student - the CFI admitted to be flying at approximately 1,200 AGL, which is the TPA for twins, kind of blamed his student for not being more precise with his altitude control. I told the CFI that it was his responsibility to make sure his student was at the correct altitude!
)
This incident gave me nightmares for a long time afterward, and also for a very long time I gave up solo flight and always had a safety pilot with me.
So... in the approach phase, all bets are off and EVERYBODY had better have Mk1 eyeballs outside!
I would agree, IF everyone follows this! My own war story practically led to me becoming a cliched statistic. Pattern entry into an uncontrolled field. Traffic was a cherokee in closed traffic.
The cherokee SHOULD have been at 800 AGL -the published TPA (the field was Nut Tree in northern California). I was approaching from the east, with a northbound runway in use, and had just terminated flight following with Travis Approach. My plan, and as I announced on CTAF, was to cross over the middle of the field at 1,500 AGL and then descend and turn to make a 45 degree entry to downwind once traffic was in sight.
This should have given me a very comfortable 6-700 feet clearance HOWEVER, the other cherokee was WAY above TPA and VERY suddenly, I had what seemed to be a windscreen full of another airplane! I pulled up and went to the right...he went to the left. I have NO idea how much separation we had, but to this day, I would swear I could count rivets! (In all honesty, it probably wasn't THAT close, but I sure grabbed a whole lot of seat cushion!)
(On the ground, I talked to the other guy - a CFI and his student - the CFI admitted to be flying at approximately 1,200 AGL, which is the TPA for twins, kind of blamed his student for not being more precise with his altitude control. I told the CFI that it was his responsibility to make sure his student was at the correct altitude!
)This incident gave me nightmares for a long time afterward, and also for a very long time I gave up solo flight and always had a safety pilot with me.
So... in the approach phase, all bets are off and EVERYBODY had better have Mk1 eyeballs outside!
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PA28180
I know the Nut Tree quite well from the air and I80. Good pizza at the new amici's there.
The problem you state is probably because the CFI didn't know JACK ...a damn shame. Was he using uncontrolled airport radio work? Were you?
The best uncontrolled airport entry in my view was taught by the local examiner, bill gianotti, fly over the field at 2000' agl, circle the field to read the wind sock, the tpa and get a lay of th land. Then fly perpendicular to the downwind until clear, descend while turning opposite to downwind, continue the turn until established ont he 45 entry to downwind...at the correct altitude and making radio reports throughout.
I know the Nut Tree quite well from the air and I80. Good pizza at the new amici's there.
The problem you state is probably because the CFI didn't know JACK ...a damn shame. Was he using uncontrolled airport radio work? Were you?
The best uncontrolled airport entry in my view was taught by the local examiner, bill gianotti, fly over the field at 2000' agl, circle the field to read the wind sock, the tpa and get a lay of th land. Then fly perpendicular to the downwind until clear, descend while turning opposite to downwind, continue the turn until established ont he 45 entry to downwind...at the correct altitude and making radio reports throughout.
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PTH...
In answer to your question, yes...we were both making the required radio reporting points on CTAF. Unfortunately, the other guy wasn't where he said he was!
As to the mentioned airport entry, I was taught that method as well. But I thought with only one aircraft in the pattern, and where I thought he was (actually had visual on him for a moment after his take off, but then lost him in the haze - early afternoon, summer flight), I believed that I should have been all right going 'over the top' (center field) at 1,500 AGL. My first clue as to what had happened, was when I heard a different voice on the radio from the other plane afterwards.
This little NMAC of mine TRULY scared the cr@p out of me that day...and for many days afterwards! Like I, and MANY others have written here...keep your eyeballs outside near ANY airport.
In answer to your question, yes...we were both making the required radio reporting points on CTAF. Unfortunately, the other guy wasn't where he said he was!
As to the mentioned airport entry, I was taught that method as well. But I thought with only one aircraft in the pattern, and where I thought he was (actually had visual on him for a moment after his take off, but then lost him in the haze - early afternoon, summer flight), I believed that I should have been all right going 'over the top' (center field) at 1,500 AGL. My first clue as to what had happened, was when I heard a different voice on the radio from the other plane afterwards.
This little NMAC of mine TRULY scared the cr@p out of me that day...and for many days afterwards! Like I, and MANY others have written here...keep your eyeballs outside near ANY airport.
