Engineers - any sign of ash damage so far?
Joined: Feb 2002
Aviation Qualifications: AME
Posts: 4,166
Likes: 1,096
From: UK
There is a check c/o on every a/c after every flight, this check encompasses many things, it is issued or endorsed by the a/c manufacturer and the regulating authority. If you did or do it you will know.
Two spring to mind, no names etc.
Similar a/c type.
Airline 1. The check is drawn up by the airline's maint engineers and involves a separate check sheet. L/G doors open, flaps extended and a thorough inspection signed off in the tech log.
Airline 2. No extra paperwork, transit check unchanged, no communication from the airline's maint engineers regarding any extra detailed checks required.
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: 30W
Spanners,
RE-assuring to hear.....I flew 10 years with tcx and all transit checks outside of the UK (etops excepted) were always carried out by the flight crew..are you telling me tcx and other carriers are now having the aircraft checked by engineers each and every transit during the present times......at ZTH? DLM? PVK?................... really??????
RE-assuring to hear.....I flew 10 years with tcx and all transit checks outside of the UK (etops excepted) were always carried out by the flight crew..are you telling me tcx and other carriers are now having the aircraft checked by engineers each and every transit during the present times......at ZTH? DLM? PVK?................... really??????
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: UK
He was senior and experienced enough that I'm inclined to believe he knew what he was talking about.
G
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,569
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From: Florida
safewing
The improvements in tolerance to rain-hail and/or ice would significantly improve the resistance to Volcanic ash.
However, the most significant improvement is knowledge of what to do if you enter volcanic ash and develop symptoms, i.e. cut back on the operating temperature until the symptoms clear.
It's like telling a a victim of a breathing problem and in a coughing fit from inhaling pollen, dust, etc., to take smaller breaths until the coughing subsides,
Once again, the safety issue is the individual event of entering a cloud and developing sysmptoms and a proper reaction.
The rest of the equation having to do with on-the-ground actions is a operator maintenance issue, which is more of the business that they know best how to address. Costly yes, but dispatching unsafe planes is not likely to be more than an umeasurable blip.
Does anyone know has the improvement in engine technology over the years diminished the risk of volcanic ash?
However, the most significant improvement is knowledge of what to do if you enter volcanic ash and develop symptoms, i.e. cut back on the operating temperature until the symptoms clear.
It's like telling a a victim of a breathing problem and in a coughing fit from inhaling pollen, dust, etc., to take smaller breaths until the coughing subsides,
Once again, the safety issue is the individual event of entering a cloud and developing sysmptoms and a proper reaction.
The rest of the equation having to do with on-the-ground actions is a operator maintenance issue, which is more of the business that they know best how to address. Costly yes, but dispatching unsafe planes is not likely to be more than an umeasurable blip.
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 86
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From: EPWA
spannersatcx, TURIN:
simple SAFETY question:
why do not clearly state which airlines are too much relaxed on maintenance? i would make sure not to book my tickets with them! Those which follow the prescribed procedures surely deserve more pax to cover extra costs
simple SAFETY question:
why do not clearly state which airlines are too much relaxed on maintenance? i would make sure not to book my tickets with them! Those which follow the prescribed procedures surely deserve more pax to cover extra costs
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 594
Likes: 72
From: VA, USA
So Ryanair fesses up - anyone else?
BBC News - Ryanair admits volcanic ash in Belfast engines
So, to all the naysayers this stuff does exist and it goes in the big round things that suck in tonnes of air and burns it up.
Note that Ryanair initially denied this entirely.
According to the report these aircraft had flown in airspace that was "open and unrestricted".
This made me chuckle: "The spokesman said Ryanair cannot explain why there was ash in the engines other than there are trace elements of it in the atmosphere." Well, duh! There's this honking great big volcano barfing up huge plumes of stuff - all along it has been stated that this stuff is not necessarily visible to be harmful.
I suspect this is the tip of the iceberg.
For now all I expect is a series of replies denying this is really a problem, etc.
I'm half expecting a "wrong-kind-of-air" excuse, bit like the "wrong-kind-of-leaves" excuse that British Rail use every few years or so, when all the trains stop running in Autumn.
- GY
So, to all the naysayers this stuff does exist and it goes in the big round things that suck in tonnes of air and burns it up.
Note that Ryanair initially denied this entirely.
According to the report these aircraft had flown in airspace that was "open and unrestricted".
This made me chuckle: "The spokesman said Ryanair cannot explain why there was ash in the engines other than there are trace elements of it in the atmosphere." Well, duh! There's this honking great big volcano barfing up huge plumes of stuff - all along it has been stated that this stuff is not necessarily visible to be harmful.
I suspect this is the tip of the iceberg.
For now all I expect is a series of replies denying this is really a problem, etc.
I'm half expecting a "wrong-kind-of-air" excuse, bit like the "wrong-kind-of-leaves" excuse that British Rail use every few years or so, when all the trains stop running in Autumn.
- GY
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 104
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From: east of 10° west
right....
I suspect this is the tip of the iceberg.
it is the smallest tip of the iceberg..
but all airlines who advocated flying through that sh... so loudly are keeping silent...
why is that?
well they are so cash strapped and so badly managed and very soon they will need lots of money for unscheduled maintenance and "early overhauls"..
they will ask that money from the EU taxpayers...but not under the title of "engine maintenance", but lost biz due to that volcano etc etc etc..
so before we EU taxpayers will hand out tons of money to these clowns we should ask some smart beancounters to check these airlines' balance sheets...to find why they really need so much dough...
maybe hidden somewhere under "performance restoration" on the engine maintenance side of their books
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 98
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From: UK
I'm half expecting a "wrong-kind-of-air" excuse, bit like the "wrong-kind-of-leaves" excuse that British Rail use every few years or so,
Clearly, volcanoes have been around for a while and VA has presumably been a (potential) problem for turbines since they took over from propellors! Quite shameful, really, that proper research and development effort starts only after a major incident.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32
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From: Sunny Berkshire
WSJ - BA: Found No Ash in Engines
BA has operated more than 20,000 flight segments and conducted more than 8,000 engine inspections, Mr. Walsh said. "Not only have we not found any damage from ash, we have not found any ash"
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 896
Likes: 2
From: SoCalif
Real, or Rumor?
I hesitate to post this one, as I receive so many emails with legit pix, but bogus stories about them.
"Here’s what happens to an engine when it's flown through a volcanic ash cloud. This is a Cessna Citation Jet (CJ2) out of Germany a few weeks ago. Luckily the other engine kept running, although very sluggishly***"
Following were several pix of an engine with uncontained failure, apparently N1 or N2 blades shed.
Sorry, I don't have a way to post the pix, nor inclination to find a public site to do it.
GB
"Here’s what happens to an engine when it's flown through a volcanic ash cloud. This is a Cessna Citation Jet (CJ2) out of Germany a few weeks ago. Luckily the other engine kept running, although very sluggishly***"
Following were several pix of an engine with uncontained failure, apparently N1 or N2 blades shed.
Sorry, I don't have a way to post the pix, nor inclination to find a public site to do it.
GB
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 965
Likes: 110
From: Bielefeld, Germany
It's not ash
Graybeard,
the following short note from the NTSB, CEN10RA135 , says that an aircraft from Eisele Flugdienst GmbH, D-IEFA, suffered an uncontained "event" on March 1.
The citation came from forget (which citation I overlooked) and repeated by infrequentflyer789 on the R&N ash thread, in answer to my query.
I found two paint schemes from Eisele in pictures on the WWW, and one paint scheme fits the pictures I was inquiring about, to which you may also be referring. The registration in those pictures is a D-reg.
March 1 is before the volcanic ash started causing problems.
PBL
the following short note from the NTSB, CEN10RA135 , says that an aircraft from Eisele Flugdienst GmbH, D-IEFA, suffered an uncontained "event" on March 1.
The citation came from forget (which citation I overlooked) and repeated by infrequentflyer789 on the R&N ash thread, in answer to my query.
I found two paint schemes from Eisele in pictures on the WWW, and one paint scheme fits the pictures I was inquiring about, to which you may also be referring. The registration in those pictures is a D-reg.
March 1 is before the volcanic ash started causing problems.
PBL
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 896
Likes: 2
From: SoCalif
Thanks, guys. Should have checked Snopes myself.
I still haven't figured out why people pull this crap. Just last week I received the one again about a guy from New York retiring in Portugal, and finding the large barn on his new farm was full of collector cars.
Hmm, looked like they could have been covered with volcanic ash...
GB
I still haven't figured out why people pull this crap. Just last week I received the one again about a guy from New York retiring in Portugal, and finding the large barn on his new farm was full of collector cars.
Hmm, looked like they could have been covered with volcanic ash...
GB
