737NG Autolands.

[Virtual738]

Having read how great the autoland capabilities are on the 737 why is autoland not used much more for precision and passenger comfort and safety. If autoland is so good for Cat 11 & 111 landings why not in general ?? Why waste such a great system ????

[Gulf Julliet Papa]

Im not sure you can use passenger comfort as an argument to use autoland. Ive had more possitive autolands (ie. what a pax would consider bad) than smooth ones (what a pax would consider good). I think if you encourage more pilots to leave autoland in they will become more and more rusty with manual flying and therefore when they had to (visual, non-precision, circling approaches) you would actually have a negative effect on passenger comfort.

In terms of precision, I think the autoland has as much chance of missing floating past the touchdown point as any other pilot. It is also quite normal for the autoland to touch down to one side of the centreline...particuarly with a small crosswind.

The autoland system also INCREASES the landing distance of the aircraft. Also if you are doing an autoland onto a non-protected runway (no runways are generally protected unless lovis procedures are in force) you have higher minima.

[PLovett]

Not every runway is equipped with an ILS; not every runway equipped with an ILS will have the area around the aerials protected in VMC conditions; and it is good to keep ones hand in - you never know when you might have to do one for real.

[Callsign Kilo]

?? Why waste such a great system ????

Personally, I quite like to fly the aeroplane when I can. I can live with the stereotype of glorified bus driver, however I don't want to be regarded as a glorified computer programmer!

I also concur with G-JP, I have had the autoland system pull off some real stinkers in the past; so pax comfort has little to do with it. It has some real limitations in the NG, mostly due to the fact that the autopilot system has no input to the rudder. You attempt an autoland with a 15kt Crosswind (the limit) or greater in the simulator. Its horrid! It also isn't too hot with a tailwind either.

Autoland is there to be used when you need to and when it is certified to do so in my opinion. That's when it is worth it's weight in gold (ie the days when you really have 200m RVR in the TDZ!)

[Callsign Kilo]

Yes, I recall the FCTM making note to Fail Operational 737NGs. Different type of FCC system i suppose, assumably both autopilots have rudder channel input.

Ours are all Fail Passive systems.

[TheWanderer]

Originally Posted by Virtual738

Why waste such a great system ????

Because in reality it is much more fun to fly and land manually.

[Denti]

Autoland works quite well, especially on the fail operational 737s, those usually do a pretty nice touchdown exactly on centreline after a correct flown decrab and then continue to track it until you switch the autopilot off when you need to turn off the runway.

That said, it is way more fun to land manually, besides, we do need any manual flying training we can get. So, autoland is the not the norm, manual landings are. Not to mention all the restrictions about protected areas etc.

[Virtual738]

Thanks for all the input !

I do agree that hand flying skills are very important but I
was curious about what pilots really thought about the autoland system.
Do regular autolands have to be performed to keep the plane certified for autolands ??

[Rick777]

Planes do have to do regular autolands. Something like 1 per month. Pilots generally need a lot more to maintain their skills at their peak. Autolands are actually more stressful than regular landings because you are not controlling the plane but have to be ready to take over in case the system fails. Also very often the way ATC handles you getting set up to autoland is impossible, and in fact a relatively small percentage of runways are capable of handling autolands. As an example, unless it has changed recently, Chicago Ohare which is one of the busiest airports in the US has only two runways that can handle it and they are not the normal landing runways.

[ga_trojan]

From my experience on the NG the autopilot is great in calm conditions, but throw in some wind and it doesn't handle it to well. I have had two instances in two years where the autopilot had to be disconnect because it could not fly the approach within tolerance in the conditions yet the pilot takes over and flies better. I would suggest that asides from fog a good pilot with some time on type flies better than the autopilot as he can anticipate, where as the autopilot is reactionary.

A pilot can land in a 40 knot crosswind comfortably whereas the auto land cannot. So while autoland is great in fog it isn't practical for everyday operations.

[iflytb20]

We have the Fail Operational System fitted on our NGs - Hell, they are even certified for Single Engine F30 Autoland . But since 95% of the airports we fly to have good weather throughout the year, our company has not opted for the CAT II/III clearance. As a result, the system has been degraded [manually] to the Fail Passive level. But even then we hardly use it.

Besides, flying her manually is more fun

[Denti]

@ga_trojan, the fail operational autoflight system handles gusty conditions with quite a bit of wind much better than the fail passive ones. I was pleasantly surprised when i tried it in quite windy conditions. That of course is the reason why it has an increased crosswind margin of 25kts.

That said, the days of 40kts crosswind are over for us, we coud do that initially in the classics, then we got a company limit of 35 and the NG with winglets has only a demonstrated crosswind capability of 33kts.