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Old 16th Aug 2009, 17:43   #1 (permalink)
9.G
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UK R&R

yet another riddle to be solved please: need your opinion and advise please regarding following two issues while flying in the UK.

185 knots for all instrument procedures unless stated otherwise.
Does it mean I have to fly 185 Kts till I've completed the whole departure?

approach ban for UK for EU OPS compliant operator.
Is it 1000ft AAL as per CAP 393 or is it normal EU OPS approach ban like OM, equivalent position or 1000 ft?

Cheers
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Old 16th Aug 2009, 18:48   #2 (permalink)
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No. You may want to keep speed down to min flaps up if you have big turns, otherwise 250 below 10 is usually flown, but ATC has discretion to let you speed up below 10 to 300 or so, and are often quite happy to let you do so, but now in busy terminal areas only they want you to stick to 250.

Either will do. Nobody will grumble at you if you do 1000' AAL OR equivalent position. Take your pick!
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Old 17th Aug 2009, 21:22   #3 (permalink)
 
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185 knots for all instrument procedures unless stated otherwise.

This refers to instrument approach proceedures & applies from Initial approach fix onwards to keep you within the lateral envelope of th approach.

Ref Rainboe's comment on speed limits below FL100, ATC can only lift the speed limit within controlled airspace.

Try raising these questions on the ATC forum for more detaile replies.

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Old 17th Aug 2009, 22:47   #4 (permalink)
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The UK AIP does indeed specify a max of 185kts for departures and missed approaches in Gen 1.7 page 1-7-51.

All I can say is that in all my time, no-one has paid any attention to it (including FOI), so for Q1, technically yes, but..................

For Q2, there does not appear to be any 'difference' filed in the UK from ICAO, so 'normal rules apply'
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Old 18th Aug 2009, 12:15   #5 (permalink)
9.G
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Thanx BOAC, I do prefer to follow the prescribed speeds as it's more elegant and allows to complete the turns without excessive turn radius. It's more a result of a scarce space and a matter of noise abatement. SID are in most cases noise preferential routes thus accurate adherence to the speed limitations ensures minimum level of noise, methinks.

I'd say exactly the same approach ban in the UK is the same as EU OPS, however CAP 393 used as a reference suggests 1000 ft footmark as a valid approach ban for none UK registered aircrafts. Apparently CAP 393 has been amended to make it uniform with the EU OPS. Any chance to get this amendment or the reference please?

Cheers
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Old 18th Aug 2009, 13:16   #6 (permalink)
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Let me google that for you

First hit?
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Old 18th Aug 2009, 18:32   #7 (permalink)
9.G
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with all due respect BOAC the current UK CAA CAP 393, Air Navigation Order, Article 48, paragraph (6) says:
“Without prejudice to paragraphs (4) and (5), an aircraft to which this article applies, when making a descent to an aerodrome, shall not descend from a height of 1000 feet or more above the aerodrome to a height of less than 1000 feet above the aerodrome if the relevant runway visual range at the aerodrome is at the time less than the specified minimum for landing”.
As you can see it still refers to 1000 ft footmark. Oddly enough I've been told it's been amended? Latest copy from Jepp about UK R&R regarding the Approach Ban

For non-JAR-OPS operators and those exempt from JAR-OPS 1.405:
Under U.K. Legislation an aircraft, when making a descent to an aerodrome, shall not descend from a height of 1000ft or more above the aerodrome to a height less than 1000ft above the aerodrome if the relevant RVR at the aerodrome is at the time less than the specified minimum for landing, or
1.continue an “approach to landing” at any aerodrome by flying below the relevant specified DH, or
2.descend below the relevant specified MDH unless, in either case, from such height the specified visual reference for landing is established and is maintained.

In first case CAA refers to registration of a/c, in Jepp it's about being JAR operator. Does it also mean EU OPS compliant?
Thanx for your help
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Old 18th Aug 2009, 19:06   #8 (permalink)
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with all due respect BOAC
- don't shoot the messenger - merely responding to your request for a link! Don't wish to get into the way we 'regulate' (or not)
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