Reasons to scream 'Mayday' out the mic
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well, there are pro's and con's for everything - but I would certainly assume that you (if you have to) scream Mayday into the mic and not out of it.
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PAN: Panne not pain
My understanding is that PAN is derived from `en panne', `broken down' rather than anything bready. As you say, MAYDAY from `m'aidez' `help me', rather than either international workers' holidays or fertility rites.
The use of Mayday and Pan also has repercussions in the chain of events taken on the ground (at least in the UK)
When informed of an airborne emergency the Aeronautical Rescue Co-ordination Centre take different actions for Distress and Urgency calls, things like informing local police, fire and ambulance units, bringing SAR helicopters to readiness, or even getting them in the air in anticipation of an incident. Informing the coast guard if there is a possibility of ditching, or mountain rescue teams for landing in the hills. They can even scramble a Nimrod to drop life rafts and other survival stores over ditched aircraft.
When informed of an airborne emergency the Aeronautical Rescue Co-ordination Centre take different actions for Distress and Urgency calls, things like informing local police, fire and ambulance units, bringing SAR helicopters to readiness, or even getting them in the air in anticipation of an incident. Informing the coast guard if there is a possibility of ditching, or mountain rescue teams for landing in the hills. They can even scramble a Nimrod to drop life rafts and other survival stores over ditched aircraft.
You call "Pan" if you want to bypass the traffic for a priority landing.
You call "Mayday" if you think it possible that, if things go badly, you may need fire and rescue services on the scene.
For anything else, I wouldn't bother ATC at all.
You call "Mayday" if you think it possible that, if things go badly, you may need fire and rescue services on the scene.
For anything else, I wouldn't bother ATC at all.
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when to holler mayday?
Crossing water in a 172, abeam the Florida panhandle, having filed IFR, it came to my attention that one of the fuel gauges read full, the other one read empty! This caused me to lose my concentration a bit, so I wandered off track. Center observed my deviation, and enquired
"November 43885, you are 20 degrees off track, is there a problem?"
"Well, actually, I may have a problem with fuel......" (wondering if perhaps there was a wasp nest blocking the air vent, or gunge in the fuel, or some such..)
Center came back with relish at once. This could make his day! With eagerness, he enquired "Would you like to declare an emergency?"
Well, the engine was running fine, I wasn't lost, and it was still right side up.
"Not at this time, thank you".
"Would you like to proceed to an airport? We could suggest Tallahassee"
"Thank you, that sounds like a good idea." Being over water, I was at my customary maximum altitude of c. 11,000'.
"November 43885, heading 350, descend to 3,000 feet" instructed the controller.
"Negative! If I'm going to be a glider, I want to be as high as possible!"
"Roger, November 43885, we have cleared the airspace for you inbound to Tallahassee from eleven thousand feet down to the ground!" What a sensible controller! When I had the airfield within 172 final glide, I came straight in, to be greeted by all the fire engines etc, who followed me to the fuel station with care and solicitude. Of course the only problem was the fuel gauges, typically wonky in a Cessna. You notice things like that when you are flying over open water. . . . .
I did call a mayday once, but that was in a boat. It does get their attention.
"November 43885, you are 20 degrees off track, is there a problem?"
"Well, actually, I may have a problem with fuel......" (wondering if perhaps there was a wasp nest blocking the air vent, or gunge in the fuel, or some such..)
Center came back with relish at once. This could make his day! With eagerness, he enquired "Would you like to declare an emergency?"
Well, the engine was running fine, I wasn't lost, and it was still right side up.
"Not at this time, thank you".
"Would you like to proceed to an airport? We could suggest Tallahassee"
"Thank you, that sounds like a good idea." Being over water, I was at my customary maximum altitude of c. 11,000'.
"November 43885, heading 350, descend to 3,000 feet" instructed the controller.
"Negative! If I'm going to be a glider, I want to be as high as possible!"
"Roger, November 43885, we have cleared the airspace for you inbound to Tallahassee from eleven thousand feet down to the ground!" What a sensible controller! When I had the airfield within 172 final glide, I came straight in, to be greeted by all the fire engines etc, who followed me to the fuel station with care and solicitude. Of course the only problem was the fuel gauges, typically wonky in a Cessna. You notice things like that when you are flying over open water. . . . .
I did call a mayday once, but that was in a boat. It does get their attention.
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That is all well and good in an English speaking environment, with everybody focused on your particular problem. However it does rely on the nuances of language, which are less honed in non native English speaking environments.
If Avianca flight 052 had reverted to standard international (and this was an international flight) terminology in order to convey the deteriorating nature of his fuel situation, that disaster might well have been avoided. Words such as "priority" often become subject to translative interpretation.
An American pilot flying in the UK or a UK pilot flying in the USA, will readily tell you how very different are the R/T procedures and realities that they experience in the other environment. Without doubt, the USA has a massive domestic air transport structure, and it has clearly evolved in a manner that makes only minimal consideration for the wider global theatre. The UK is a small island surrounded by many other nations with an enormous variety of different native languages. In this environment the vital necessity of standardisation and adherence to more defined protocols has evolved.
The use of emergency R/T prefixes, should minimize the confusion that often results from the nuance of intonement or the use of language that may not convey the same imperative, when being used by pilots or controllers for whom English is not a first language. Even as in the UK/USA example, the speed, accent, subtlety and nuance of a (basically the same) language, has the ability to cause much confusion when applied to the alien culture.
Many pilots will adapt and change as they cross 30 West. UK pilots flying West will often adopt the clipped and rapid style of their hosts, often quite badly. conversely many US pilots flying East will slow down their more common "auctioneers patter" to a pace that sounds like the "batteries are running out!"
In theory, the use of a mayday call should convey the same imperative in London as it does in L.A or Lagos, Libreville, Lima, or anywhere else. It may be less customary or more unusual in the USA, but if anbody uses it, or indeed had Avianca used it approaching JFK that unpleasant evening, I doubt the imperative would have been lost on the receiving controllers.
An emergency isn't about your ability to accurately convey the correct choice of prefix. It is about dealing with the emergency! Nevertheless communication at many levels will play a vital part in the sucessful outcome of that emergency. As the necessity to communicate with ATC and possibly others over the radio fits into the priority, the use of either of these phrases will start the application of the appropriate procedures. Time may not allow an accurate assesment of the emergency, and the situation can be upgraded, or downgraded as necessary. It is also worth remembering that individuals will revert back to what is instinctive (albeit modified by training or reinforcement) when confronted by situations of high stress. In these situations the communication of an emergency should be simple and standardised.
I am making no criticism of what works in the USA, or of what has evolved into standard practice. But given the global nature of the industry, it is important that procedures generally, and certainly emergencies, are likely to be properly understood and appreciated by those involved, wherever they occur in the world.
If Avianca flight 052 had reverted to standard international (and this was an international flight) terminology in order to convey the deteriorating nature of his fuel situation, that disaster might well have been avoided. Words such as "priority" often become subject to translative interpretation.
An American pilot flying in the UK or a UK pilot flying in the USA, will readily tell you how very different are the R/T procedures and realities that they experience in the other environment. Without doubt, the USA has a massive domestic air transport structure, and it has clearly evolved in a manner that makes only minimal consideration for the wider global theatre. The UK is a small island surrounded by many other nations with an enormous variety of different native languages. In this environment the vital necessity of standardisation and adherence to more defined protocols has evolved.
The use of emergency R/T prefixes, should minimize the confusion that often results from the nuance of intonement or the use of language that may not convey the same imperative, when being used by pilots or controllers for whom English is not a first language. Even as in the UK/USA example, the speed, accent, subtlety and nuance of a (basically the same) language, has the ability to cause much confusion when applied to the alien culture.
Many pilots will adapt and change as they cross 30 West. UK pilots flying West will often adopt the clipped and rapid style of their hosts, often quite badly. conversely many US pilots flying East will slow down their more common "auctioneers patter" to a pace that sounds like the "batteries are running out!"
In theory, the use of a mayday call should convey the same imperative in London as it does in L.A or Lagos, Libreville, Lima, or anywhere else. It may be less customary or more unusual in the USA, but if anbody uses it, or indeed had Avianca used it approaching JFK that unpleasant evening, I doubt the imperative would have been lost on the receiving controllers.
An emergency isn't about your ability to accurately convey the correct choice of prefix. It is about dealing with the emergency! Nevertheless communication at many levels will play a vital part in the sucessful outcome of that emergency. As the necessity to communicate with ATC and possibly others over the radio fits into the priority, the use of either of these phrases will start the application of the appropriate procedures. Time may not allow an accurate assesment of the emergency, and the situation can be upgraded, or downgraded as necessary. It is also worth remembering that individuals will revert back to what is instinctive (albeit modified by training or reinforcement) when confronted by situations of high stress. In these situations the communication of an emergency should be simple and standardised.
I am making no criticism of what works in the USA, or of what has evolved into standard practice. But given the global nature of the industry, it is important that procedures generally, and certainly emergencies, are likely to be properly understood and appreciated by those involved, wherever they occur in the world.
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There aren't many times (if any) where screaming anything into a mic will be of any benefit.
So far as the use of "Pan" and "Mayday" are concerned, several folks have in this forum have already addressed the differences of meaning of both terms; all well and good if both the sender (Pilot) and receiver (ATC) have a satisfactory understanding of both those terms, and of English in general.
But, what happens when:
You're operating within China (or Indonesian, Columbo, or any other that may come to mind) and you experience a problem?
In the USA, EU, Canada, etc, you could probably say something to the effect of, "...XXX center, we just lost 3 of 4 generators and need ....whatever assistanc..." and get an appropriate response.
Making such as statement within many ATC areas in the world (China, Indonesia and Vietnam come to mind) will get you a response similar to "...Station calling (wherever) say again your call sign..." ZERO understanding outside of the norm!
In these places, the only statement that they WILL understand is the word "mayday". Even Singapore's ATC - which is supposed to be so "advanced", etc - would not understand anything but a "mayday" or "pan" call.
The bottom line. Don't be afraid to use it (Pan or Mayday) if YOU feel it necessary.
So far as the use of "Pan" and "Mayday" are concerned, several folks have in this forum have already addressed the differences of meaning of both terms; all well and good if both the sender (Pilot) and receiver (ATC) have a satisfactory understanding of both those terms, and of English in general.
But, what happens when:
You're operating within China (or Indonesian, Columbo, or any other that may come to mind) and you experience a problem?
In the USA, EU, Canada, etc, you could probably say something to the effect of, "...XXX center, we just lost 3 of 4 generators and need ....whatever assistanc..." and get an appropriate response.
Making such as statement within many ATC areas in the world (China, Indonesia and Vietnam come to mind) will get you a response similar to "...Station calling (wherever) say again your call sign..." ZERO understanding outside of the norm!
In these places, the only statement that they WILL understand is the word "mayday". Even Singapore's ATC - which is supposed to be so "advanced", etc - would not understand anything but a "mayday" or "pan" call.
The bottom line. Don't be afraid to use it (Pan or Mayday) if YOU feel it necessary.
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here here. Yep I would said you're bang on there. If one does get into bother, then put out a Mayday or Pan or god knows what, just as long as the ATC unit in that area knows damn well what is going on. That is the main thing.
I've Pan panned in in the states once, the guy in ATC had no idea what I wanted (engine out IMC in a twin) so I promtley said Mayday! Worked a treat!
I've Pan panned in in the states once, the guy in ATC had no idea what I wanted (engine out IMC in a twin) so I promtley said Mayday! Worked a treat!
Last edited by Tight Slot; 20th Aug 2009 at 12:25.
Test flying a prototype light single with about 20 hours on the airframe, just joined the circuit on a wide left base, No.5 in a very congested circuit. I was in the right hand seat, Wyvern (not seen him around Pprune for a while) in the left.
Sudden loud thumping from just in front of our feet, very brief cockpit conversation:
Wyvern: What's that?
Genghis: Don't know, might it be the engine?
Wyvern: Certainly might be!
Whereupon Wyvern called a very calm mayday, possible engine problem, and requested priority for an immediate landing.
We were given that and the next bit was visually quite comical - without being asked, the four aeroplanes in front of us went left-right-left-right as they all initiated their own go-arounds.
We landed safely, taxied back in, to find to our relief that a non-critical bungee in the undercarriage had failed and decided to play a drum beat on the underside of the cockpit.
We removed the bungee, went over to the tower to thank them, and explained (with props) that "the elastic band had snapped".
G
Sudden loud thumping from just in front of our feet, very brief cockpit conversation:
Wyvern: What's that?
Genghis: Don't know, might it be the engine?
Wyvern: Certainly might be!
Whereupon Wyvern called a very calm mayday, possible engine problem, and requested priority for an immediate landing.
We were given that and the next bit was visually quite comical - without being asked, the four aeroplanes in front of us went left-right-left-right as they all initiated their own go-arounds.
We landed safely, taxied back in, to find to our relief that a non-critical bungee in the undercarriage had failed and decided to play a drum beat on the underside of the cockpit.
We removed the bungee, went over to the tower to thank them, and explained (with props) that "the elastic band had snapped".
G
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Totatally agree with PappyJ, where I operate in Asia, the less information you try to give ATC, the better. Have you ever tried doing a relay for someone in Asia, ATC ususally will do their best to cover up most of the effort. 
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PappyJ
If you were talking to London they would say "are you declaring an emergency?" - so you might as well start with the word Mayday and save time.
In the USA, EU, Canada, etc, you could probably say something to the effect of, "...XXX center, we just lost 3 of 4 generators and need ....whatever assistanc..." and get an appropriate response.
