Taxi with passengers not seated
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You say it like we're discussing landing with unseated pax.
The sit down rule is sometimes carried to extreemes. We were waiting for our gate at FRA once, and the F/A confronted a man who got up to use a washroom...They let him go, eventually, and he came back before we even got moving again.
On another experience, one JetBlue crew was good for allowing the pax to use laptops and walk around during 1 hr taxi-out that JFK is known for...
I would say that letting pax unseated is okay if remaining taxi time exceeds 5 minutes, but then again, aircraft don't really have handrails! (or shall we wait for Ryanair?)
The sit down rule is sometimes carried to extreemes. We were waiting for our gate at FRA once, and the F/A confronted a man who got up to use a washroom...They let him go, eventually, and he came back before we even got moving again.
On another experience, one JetBlue crew was good for allowing the pax to use laptops and walk around during 1 hr taxi-out that JFK is known for...
I would say that letting pax unseated is okay if remaining taxi time exceeds 5 minutes, but then again, aircraft don't really have handrails! (or shall we wait for Ryanair?)
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Frankie_B: No, sorry, not implying that at all. The deceleration on landing, especially if you're under pressure to get off the runway ASAP is perfectly understandable, and is probably of the same order as a bus emergency stop. I've been standing in the latter case, and wouldn't want to be in the former case.
What I was trying to get at is that in abnormal situations, SLF inertia is similar in both cases. We do our best to prevent air passengers from putting themselves in that position, but have bus systems in place which effectively force passengers into the same situation. Ironically enough, it's often on the bus from gate to aircraft.
What I was trying to get at is that in abnormal situations, SLF inertia is similar in both cases. We do our best to prevent air passengers from putting themselves in that position, but have bus systems in place which effectively force passengers into the same situation. Ironically enough, it's often on the bus from gate to aircraft.
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411A and The Kabaka thank you for taking the time to refer to my post 
. I was confused after reading this thread. We have Pilots lining up to criticise (rightly) the SLF who ignore just about every approach to get them to sit down on taxi but then apparently it's OK to taxi a plane with all of them in the aisles and the emergency exits disarmed on occasions 
. The ones that are permanently armed would have been blocked due to luggage, volume of pax etc.
I was not privy to the actual incident referred to in my post.... only the fall out personally on my friend most of which is not appropriate to disclose in a forum. It seems there are 2 schools of thourght here on the aviation questions though.
Firstly I think this incident should have been reported through the correct channels in order to improve flight safety just as Kabaka says. In fact from what I understand there were two issues here. The initial jolt to the plane and the impact it had in the cabin and the lack of communication between the F/D and the SCCM who tried to initiate this. Safety was compromised and the CSR was warranted. Thats what it states in our manual. However a CSR has to be supported/signed by the Capt who on this occasion would not do so. Why?? I think Kabana has hit the nail on the head.
Secondly there are the "private words". Excellent in their place
I have on a few occasions had these with the F/D just as they frequently did with me when I was a newly promoted SCCM and didn't always get it right either!!
On this occasion a lot of people had "private words". The SCCM to the F/D on what to put on the obviously required CSR so as not to aportion blame. She was told not to file it at all at the time
This incident was eventually reported as part of something else relating to the safety culture of the base. It was reported to a senior CC manager. Instead of reporting it to flight safety for immediate investigation a "private word" was had with the Base Captain and everything was covered up. In fact nothing was put on the safety data base at all by either of these two but apparently they had a written report
What else happened I'm not going to say but it was not in the interests of improving safety at a major UK carrier. I'll bear that in mind next time I have a serious incident on my flight. Thanks for this thread Guys as it made me look at my practice now and for the future.
. I was confused after reading this thread. We have Pilots lining up to criticise (rightly) the SLF who ignore just about every approach to get them to sit down on taxi but then apparently it's OK to taxi a plane with all of them in the aisles and the emergency exits disarmed on occasions . The ones that are permanently armed would have been blocked due to luggage, volume of pax etc.I was not privy to the actual incident referred to in my post.... only the fall out personally on my friend most of which is not appropriate to disclose in a forum. It seems there are 2 schools of thourght here on the aviation questions though.
Firstly I think this incident should have been reported through the correct channels in order to improve flight safety just as Kabaka says. In fact from what I understand there were two issues here. The initial jolt to the plane and the impact it had in the cabin and the lack of communication between the F/D and the SCCM who tried to initiate this. Safety was compromised and the CSR was warranted. Thats what it states in our manual. However a CSR has to be supported/signed by the Capt who on this occasion would not do so. Why?? I think Kabana has hit the nail on the head.
Secondly there are the "private words". Excellent in their place
I have on a few occasions had these with the F/D just as they frequently did with me when I was a newly promoted SCCM and didn't always get it right either!!On this occasion a lot of people had "private words". The SCCM to the F/D on what to put on the obviously required CSR so as not to aportion blame. She was told not to file it at all at the time
This incident was eventually reported as part of something else relating to the safety culture of the base. It was reported to a senior CC manager. Instead of reporting it to flight safety for immediate investigation a "private word" was had with the Base Captain and everything was covered up. In fact nothing was put on the safety data base at all by either of these two but apparently they had a written report
What else happened I'm not going to say but it was not in the interests of improving safety at a major UK carrier. I'll bear that in mind next time I have a serious incident on my flight. Thanks for this thread Guys as it made me look at my practice now and for the future.
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In our airline, on departure, we do not close the aircraft doors until all the pax are seated. As to taxing on arrival if the pax decide to do a "Die Hard" & make for the hat rack or doors before I turn the seat belt sign off it's their problem & they would not be able to claim anything from the airline or insurance. I must admit on certain flights i.e. Dhaka/Mumbai I tend to be a bit heavy on the brakes on the taxi in
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Frankie_B: Indeed, and a good point. I'm certainly not defending those who think they have a right to stand during taxi; just pointing out that our various transport authorities have a somewhat inconsistent approach to passenger safety.
I'm not arguing any particular position, so I'll leave it at that.
I'm not arguing any particular position, so I'll leave it at that.
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DownIn3Green
Mud whatever...you're a non-rev...if I had to return to the gate for you or your yappy little pet...you're getting off...so much for your card...
I was not a non-rev, comprehension goes a long way. If I was I would have kept quiet, as I threatened FAR's they assumed I was.
They at the time they did the thing that benefited all most, you could learn from them, stay quiet and carry on with the flight.
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Mephistopheles
And what is up up with the taxi speeds in the midle east/asia. Did a few Haji tours and the general taxi speed seemed to be just under V1? I wondered if the whole "Insha'Allah" idealism was a factor?
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No, I refer to taxi speeds that I have seen on a ramp, not a taxiway. Many carriers clearly exceeded safe speeds on congested ramps. My post was in part intended for humor but performance/passenger comfort was clearly not a factor in the ramp taxi speeds I had observed.
It was like the wild wild west of aviation, yehawwh!!!
It was like the wild wild west of aviation, yehawwh!!!
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Mudface...are you even a pilot???
How have you "observed" taxi speeds on the ramp?
Ever heard a controller??? If you have, maybe the phrase "expidite taxi" would be familiar to you...
"Threaten" with the FAR's???...Give us all a break............
How have you "observed" taxi speeds on the ramp?
Ever heard a controller??? If you have, maybe the phrase "expidite taxi" would be familiar to you...
"Threaten" with the FAR's???...Give us all a break............
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DownIn3Green
My first instinct was to refrain from responding to your petty belittling post. A quick answer would be no,yes,yes...WTF.
OK prim Donna, I have taxied several airframes on several continents, Have plenty of time operating aircraft on the ground, spent 5 years as an unsung crew member (MX. Rep/ Flight Mechanic) giving me probably 2X the time in flight (as an observer and often an adviser), when you went to the hotel I continued on with an aircraft often spending 30-50 hours on duty. Just spent the last hour of my shift riding shotgun on the radios of an aircraft trying to replicate a chronic problem.
No break for you, the crew operating the aircraft became quickly submissive when I had identified their "at fault" position. I wish you were the PIC as I would have enjoyed the experience.
You obviously have a chip on your shoulder; I suggest you wash it down with a Mud Pie.
My current focus is as an Avionics tech. for the most part. All the above credentials that I have stated are not worth a damn as I unlike yourself understand I am only as good as my last action in this screwed up cooperate controlled world of aviation, no glory, just a paycheck and series of experiences.
Hope you enjoy down3green for the remainder of your career.
Apologies to the PPRUNE forum for my weakness in response to the above said baiter as I truly enjoy the lessons I have gained through interaction and my contributions (beside this one) that I hope to be insightfully, or the thought provoking posts I wish to enter.
OK prim Donna, I have taxied several airframes on several continents, Have plenty of time operating aircraft on the ground, spent 5 years as an unsung crew member (MX. Rep/ Flight Mechanic) giving me probably 2X the time in flight (as an observer and often an adviser), when you went to the hotel I continued on with an aircraft often spending 30-50 hours on duty. Just spent the last hour of my shift riding shotgun on the radios of an aircraft trying to replicate a chronic problem.
No break for you, the crew operating the aircraft became quickly submissive when I had identified their "at fault" position. I wish you were the PIC as I would have enjoyed the experience.
You obviously have a chip on your shoulder; I suggest you wash it down with a Mud Pie.
My current focus is as an Avionics tech. for the most part. All the above credentials that I have stated are not worth a damn as I unlike yourself understand I am only as good as my last action in this screwed up cooperate controlled world of aviation, no glory, just a paycheck and series of experiences.
Hope you enjoy down3green for the remainder of your career.
Apologies to the PPRUNE forum for my weakness in response to the above said baiter as I truly enjoy the lessons I have gained through interaction and my contributions (beside this one) that I hope to be insightfully, or the thought provoking posts I wish to enter.
